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Atheist Forums › Community › Religion › Christianity v
The Problem with Christians

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The Problem with Christians
FatAndFaithless Offline
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#1151
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 2, 2016 at 2:58 pm
"Because we're the ones who REALLY have the answers, the other thousand sects have it wrong."
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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IATIA Offline
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#1152
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 2, 2016 at 3:53 pm (This post was last modified: April 2, 2016 at 3:54 pm by IATIA.)
(April 2, 2016 at 1:48 pm)athrock Wrote:
(April 2, 2016 at 1:43 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: Why would god have to allow or permit Pharaoh's heart to be hardened if Pharaoh already had free will? Either way your saying god intervened and changed something, which in turn would violate free will.

Um...read it again.

You should read it again!

Quote:Exodus 7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.
3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson

God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders

Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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The Grand Nudger Offline
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#1153
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 2, 2016 at 3:56 pm (This post was last modified: April 2, 2016 at 3:57 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(April 2, 2016 at 2:53 pm)athrock Wrote: Because God Himself established the Catholic Church for the express purpose of assisting you on your journey home.

I'm not from The Mighty Cathol's home, nor does the church do -anything- to get me to the place I am from.  If I want to go home, I'll do so, no assistance required.  I have legs.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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abaris Offline
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#1154
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 2, 2016 at 4:47 pm
(April 2, 2016 at 2:53 pm)athrock Wrote: Because God Himself established the Catholic Church for the express purpose of assisting you on your journey home.

Oh, I didn't know that God is called Theodosis. I call him Theo from now on.
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athrock Offline
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#1155
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 2, 2016 at 4:58 pm
(April 2, 2016 at 2:16 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:
(April 2, 2016 at 2:05 pm)athrock Wrote: If I permit or allow someone to drive my car, and they freely choose to drive it off of a cliff, that is not the same as saying that I personally drove them off the cliff myself.

God allowed Pharaoh's heart to be hardened, but he was not the agent doing the actual hardening. Pharaoh was permitted or allowed to harden his own heart.

But I think the article says more than just this point.
But why would he need god's permission if he had free will already?

We're saying the same thing.  

God would have preferred that Pharaoh simply accept Moses' initial request, but it didn't play out that way. God allowed or permitted Pharaoh to harden his own heart rather than FORCING him to let the Israelites go.
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athrock Offline
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#1156
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 2, 2016 at 5:00 pm
(April 2, 2016 at 2:58 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: "Because we're the ones who REALLY have the answers, the other thousand sects have it wrong."

Correct.

The fact that you don't understand why this is the case is a big part of your problem.
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athrock Offline
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#1157
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 2, 2016 at 5:02 pm
(April 2, 2016 at 3:53 pm)IATIA Wrote:
(April 2, 2016 at 1:48 pm)athrock Wrote: Um...read it again.

You should read it again!

Quote:Exodus 7   King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.
3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

Not that. Read the article that I linked to again. 

It explains Exodus 7:3.
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athrock Offline
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#1158
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 2, 2016 at 5:03 pm
(April 2, 2016 at 3:56 pm)Rhythm Wrote:
(April 2, 2016 at 2:53 pm)athrock Wrote: Because God Himself established the Catholic Church for the express purpose of assisting you on your journey home.

I'm not from The Mighty Cathol's home, nor does the church do -anything- to get me to the place I am from.  If I want to go home, I'll do so, no assistance required.  I have legs.

You are so far out of your depth at this point...
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IATIA Offline
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#1159
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 2, 2016 at 5:03 pm (This post was last modified: April 2, 2016 at 5:04 pm by IATIA.)
(April 2, 2016 at 4:58 pm)athrock Wrote: God would have preferred that Pharaoh simply accept Moses' initial request, but it didn't play out that way. God allowed or permitted Pharaoh to harden his own heart rather than FORCING him to let the Israelites go.

Wrong!  Read it again!

Quote:Exodus 7   King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.
3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

Your god was adamant that the plagues would ensue and having the Pharaoh give in was not part of the plan.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson

God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders

Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
Find
Reply
IATIA Offline
Complete idiot? Nope. Still missing parts.
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#1160
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 2, 2016 at 5:05 pm
(April 2, 2016 at 5:02 pm)athrock Wrote: Not that. Read the article that I linked to again. 

It explains Exodus 7:3.

I can read. It says that god intends to harden the Pharaoh's heart.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson

God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders

Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
Find
Reply


Atheist Forums › Community › Religion › Christianity v
The Problem with Christians

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