The Problem with Christians

[Minimalist]

If something is true, then it is true, yes. That's called a tautology.

If the actual law of nature, and not just our model, was that life could only come from life then...

Life would only come from life.

But no one has established that is actually the case. In fact, I believe science is very close to understanding exactly why this is false.

Quick question: Who cares? Jumping ahead, I don't care. If scientific theories are wrong, I don't care, except for curiosity as to what new theories would replace them. If there's "a god", I don't care. If the christian god is real, I don't care.

And no amount of trashing science will produce evidence for any sort of "god", whatever that is.

I don't wish to go round in circles and I understand that you have been through similar arguments more times than you'd like. So I appreciate your patience. 

Let's say we all accept that at some point life came from non-life. Let's say we also agree that from the laws of physics and from natural phenomena, we cannot explain how this happened. Until such time as a rational explanation can be offered, tested and proved, it would be reasonable to label abiogenesis as a supernatural event (using the definition as supplied).

---

No, it is the predictable result of watching religitards try and fail to demonstrate that their fantasies are real.

Minimalist, can you say with absolute certainty that there is no God?

I'm not sure that someone's poor representation of something qualifies as proof of anything.

I feel no need to.  All that is required is to point out that you...as the alleged proponent of such a being...can produce no evidence of it.

If you ever find some feel free to submit it for consideration.  I doubt you will do any better than those who have tried before.

(p.s.  your bible is not evidence.  your bible is the claim.  Before you waste your time waving one around.)

[J a c k]

I want to add to Minimalist's P.S:
personal experiences like dreams and fuzzy feelings are not evidence.

---

... you funny. Read what Pocaracas said to answer that. Bold added by me. 
I had a dream once that I would meet a dude in a trench coat, then I did. I also had a dream that I fell off a rhino. Never happened. That was precise, though. Grandfather had heart problems? Spent a lot of time in his yard? Was he sick? Very old? Recent talk about it? etc, etc, etc.

You think two people having the identical dream about a precise event in a specific location that actually happened is guessing?

I think lots of things. There are tons of possibilities. ha! I was a Christian myself once, man. I know how it rolls. 
1. You both didn't really  have the same exact dream. As you were telling it, you began to get emotional and felt goosebumps, which lead you to exaggerate, and say more than the honest "me too" that should have been blurted out. 
or
2. You both were part of a similar conversation regarding grandfather where his health condition was discussed. This left this matter hanging around your minds.
or
3. One of you is lying.
or
4. He spends a lot of time in his yard and made a comment about wondering if anyone would find him if he had a stroke there. Mind logged it. Dreamed it. You get the picture.
or
5. chance. Like the dude in a trench coat showing up the next day. Say, while wars are going on and hunger is killing children across the world, why do you think a god would give a peep preference to send a specific dream regarding a trench coat? ha! funny, right? Sometimes we think we're so special compared to the rest of the world.

[Godscreated]

Not sure where the logic fails. Can you elaborate?

The logic fails in your presumption that an answer not readily available must automatically equate to god.

The entire purpose of science is to discover the answer, no matter how long it takes, rather than to jump to a conclusion due to an inability to understand or accept that answers take time.

What happens if God is the scientific answer.

GC

[Silver]

What happens if God is the scientific answer.

GC

If god is the scientific answer, we can accept it as the answer when it is discovered as a certainty.

That still does not mean the god, at that point, is worthy of worship, however.

[vorlon13]

I want to add to Minimalist's P.S:
personal experiences like dreams and fuzzy feelings are not evidence.

---

. . . .

But, but, but,

the Mormons accept someone dreaming about Joseph Smith's gold plates to be confirming evidence of the gold plates, what Joe said was written on them, and everything else Mormon.

[vorlon13]

[sarcasm mode off]

[J a c k]

I want to add to Minimalist's P.S:
personal experiences like dreams and fuzzy feelings are not evidence.

---

. . . .

But, but, but,

the Mormons accept someone dreaming about Joseph Smith's gold plates to be confirming evidence of the gold plates, what Joe said was written on them, and everything else Mormon.

Indeed. Joseph Smith, Moses. Tomato, to-mah-toh.

[robvalue]

AJW: OK, you can't be for real man. You're basing whether or not the supernatural might exist on the fact the dictionary doesn't declare it fictional? This has to be a wind up.

I'm not denying it might exist either, not that I even understand what it is meant to be. I explained at length in the video how using that word to describe something like abiogenesis is at best redundant and at worst dishonest. But if it makes you happy, you go ahead and call it that.

[AJW333]

I am not most atheists. I have no qualms in stating with an authority of certainty that god does not exist.

I'm interested to know how you could be so confident.

[Cecelia]

AJW: OK, you can't be for real man. You're basing whether or not the supernatural might exist on the fact the dictionary doesn't declare it fictional? This has to be a wind up.

I'm not denying it might exist either, not that I even understand what it is meant to be. I explained at length in the video how using that word to describe something like abiogenesis is at best redundant and at worst dishonest. But if it makes you happy, you go ahead and call it that.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.  I know a man who said that they can't have same sex marriage because it says in the dictionary that marriage is between a man and a woman, not two men or two women.

No, I am not joking. 

I'm reasonably comfortable saying that the God of Abraham as described in the bible absolutely does not exist.  Just as I'm reasonably certain Zeus isn't the cause of lightning, and Neptune isn't the reason we have the oceans.  Could Jesus be god?  Maybe, but not as described in the bible. 

If a God wants to find us, then that God knows how to find us I'd hope.  And if they want to punish people for not believing in them, then they aren't a god worthy of worship in the first place.