The Problem with Christians

[RoadRunner79]

Where did you get that from?

Hebrews 11.1

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Hoist by your own petard, lad!

And you think that means without good reason?

[LadyForCamus]

Hebrews 11.1



Hoist by your own petard, lad!

And you think that means without good reason?

Faith is believing without evidence. Believing without rational justification. What else in your day to day life do you believe without evidence? What else in the world besides the existence of Yahweh do you take on blind faith? My two headed dinosaur? I bet not.

[Minimalist]

Hebrews 11.1



Hoist by your own petard, lad!

And you think that means without good reason?

Good reason?   It means NO REASON, pal.

You know, they are not shy about denouncing "reason."

Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God.

Martin Luther

I hear he was big in this religion game a few centuries ago.

[RoadRunner79]

And you think that means without good reason?

Faith is believing without evidence.  Believing without rational justification.  What else in your day to day life do you believe without evidence?  What else in the world besides the existence of Yahweh do you take on blind faith?  My two headed dinosaur?  I bet not.

I would agree with the first statement to an extent, but not with the second as a definition of faith.

I believe that the bank has my money, when they say they do.
I believe that science is a good method to study physical reality and that it will continue to be so.
I believe that my parents and family, will be there for me if I need.

I did notice, that you inserted the word "blind" prior to faith now....

[LadyForCamus]

Faith is believing without evidence.  Believing without rational justification.  What else in your day to day life do you believe without evidence?  What else in the world besides the existence of Yahweh do you take on blind faith?  My two headed dinosaur?  I bet not.

I would agree with the first statement to an extent, but not with the second as a definition of faith.

I believe that the bank has my money, when they say they do.
I believe that science is a good method to study physical reality and that it will continue to be so.
I believe that my parents and family, will be there for me if I need.

I did notice, that you inserted the word "blind" prior to faith now....

None of the above examples require faith on your part. You haven't answered my question about whether or not you would believe in my dinosaur without evidence.

[LadyForCamus]

Faith is believing without evidence.  Believing without rational justification.  What else in your day to day life do you believe without evidence?  What else in the world besides the existence of Yahweh do you take on blind faith?  My two headed dinosaur?  I bet not.

I would agree with the first statement to an extent, but not with the second as a definition of faith.

I believe that the bank has my money, when they say they do.
I believe that science is a good method to study physical reality and that it will continue to be so.
I believe that my parents and family, will be there for me if I need.

I did notice, that you inserted the word "blind" prior to faith now....

I'm not particularly attached to the word "blind." We can scratch it if you want.

[robvalue]

To me, "faith" in the religious sense seems to be about continuing to believe something in spite of there being no credible evidence, whether you knew this all along or found out at some point and continued believing. It would be the equivalent of still believing in Santa Claus, despite it being pointed out to you that it's clearly not real, as there's no evidence and it's a ludicrous idea. I know theists hate that comparisons but too bad. It's valid. Santa is in fact a far more believable proposition.

If there was credible, demonstrable evidence of any of it, we wouldn't be having any of these discussions. And the constant attempts to equivocate with reasonable, evidence-based probabilistic expectations is a dead giveaway.

One minute there's evidence apparently coming out of their arses, the next God can't show himself because of interfering with free will or something.

[RoadRunner79]

I would agree with the first statement to an extent, but not with the second as a definition of faith.

I believe that the bank has my money, when they say they do.  
I believe that science is a good method to study physical reality and that it will continue to be so.
I believe that my parents and family, will be there for me if I need.

I did notice, that you inserted the word "blind" prior to faith now....

None of the above examples require faith on your part.   You haven't answered my question about whether or not you would believe in my dinosaur without evidence.

The way, that you redefine faith, perhaps not. But that does not describe my faith in God either.

As to your question; what type of evidence?

[Minimalist]

Either words have meaning or they don't.

Full Definition of faith
plural faiths play \ˈfāths, sometimes ˈfāthz\

1. 1 a :  allegiance to duty or a person :  loyalty b (1) :  fidelity to one's promises (2) :  sincerity of intentions
   
2. 2 a (1) :  belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) :  belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) :  firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) :  complete trust
   
3. 3 :  something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially :  a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant [i]faith>[/i]
   

[LadyForCamus]

None of the above examples require faith on your part.   You haven't answered my question about whether or not you would believe in my dinosaur without evidence.

The way, that you redefine faith, perhaps not. But that does not describe my faith in God either.

As to your question; what type of evidence?

No, I am asking you what you would need in order to believe me if I told you I had a dinosaur living in my basement.