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Theist zone
#41
RE: Godhead & theists
(July 21, 2010 at 4:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: Thanks Watson that was a good explanation, even though Shell B did not understand what you were saying it made perfect sense.

So. . . because I disagree, I don't understand? Nice.
#42
RE: Godhead & theists
(July 21, 2010 at 4:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: EvF Do you believe that it just manifested itself?

Did God not manifest himself?

Or if God was always there, can this not be said for matter... or what ever was before that?


I find it odd that it just HAD to be God and nothing else. Furthermore, I find it absolutely ludicrous that you have no idea yourself and yet you say you believe in this shit.
"We need not a God; just another human being to give life a meaning. For people are truly all people have" author unknown

#43
RE: Godhead & theists
Godschild -

I'm not really familiar with the bible. Does it actually say in genesis that god created out of nothing? I've read the first bit (before it gets really hard to understand) but I can't remember anything about god creating from nothing. If it does say it somewhere, which bit is it?
#44
RE: Godhead & theists
(July 21, 2010 at 4:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: EvF what kind of evidence are you asking for, just look all around you, where do you think all that matter came from. Do you believe that it just manifested itself, now that would be a hard one to swallow.

Ever considered the possibility that the universe always existed in one form or another? Which is more believable? The universe had always existed in one form or another or some big magical man created it out of nothing?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan

Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.

Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.

You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
#45
RE: Godhead & theists
(July 21, 2010 at 4:38 pm)Shell B Wrote:
(July 21, 2010 at 4:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: Thanks Watson that was a good explanation, even though Shell B did not understand what you were saying it made perfect sense.

So. . . because I disagree, I don't understand? Nice.


You understand fine. One can always tell bullshit by the smell.
#46
RE: Godhead & theists
(July 21, 2010 at 4:38 pm)Shell B Wrote:
(July 21, 2010 at 4:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: Thanks Watson that was a good explanation, even though Shell B did not understand what you were saying it made perfect sense.

So. . . because I disagree, I don't understand? Nice.

I read your statement to Watson again and I see that your reply is a disagreement with what Watson had to say I should not have read through it so fast the first time. Sorry Shell B.

What I was saying to CoolBoy about asking God for the things he mentioned and God granting them, a person would continue to ask for more and more until they would rely on God for everything in their lives thus giving up their freewill. People are just to greedy to have a genie in the bottle so to speak. Hope this make sense.
(July 21, 2010 at 4:50 pm)Ace Wrote:
(July 21, 2010 at 4:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: EvF what kind of evidence are you asking for, just look all around you, where do you think all that matter came from. Do you believe that it just manifested itself, now that would be a hard one to swallow.

Ever considered the possibility that the universe always existed in one form or another? Which is more believable? The universe had always existed in one form or another or some big magical man created it out of nothing?

Neither, God is a supernatural being, not a man, not by any stretch of the imagination. How does matter form itself out of nothing? Do you believe the universe has always existed? What is believable is that an all powerful, all knowing, ever present God created the universe out of nothing. To me believing that the universe has always existed would take a ton of faith far more than I have.
(July 21, 2010 at 4:49 pm)Godhead Wrote: Godschild -

I'm not really familiar with the bible. Does it actually say in genesis that god created out of nothing? I've read the first bit (before it gets really hard to understand) but I can't remember anything about god creating from nothing. If it does say it somewhere, which bit is it?

If you are not familiar with the Bible how is it that you can identify yourself with Christ that makes no sense to me. The OT is a fore telling of Christ. The NT is about who He is and why He came to earth. This is basic knowledge for christians.

The first verse in Genesis says that God created the heaven (space) and the earth (matter) before this nothing as we can understand it existed.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
#47
RE: Godhead & theists
(July 21, 2010 at 11:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: Neither, God is a supernatural being, not a man, not by any stretch of the imagination. How does matter form itself out of nothing? Do you believe the universe has always existed? What is believable is that an all powerful, all knowing, ever present God created the universe out of nothing. To me believing that the universe has always existed would take a ton of faith far more than I have.

So it's more believable to you that some supernatural, all powerful, all knowing being created the universe from nothing? More believable than a universe that always existed in one form or another (oh and always existing in one form or another doesn't mean created out of nothing). I don't believe exactly, I just find that conclusion more believable than some magical being. I don't know how this universe came about and nor do you, it's just I find god a less believable conclusion. There is no evidence to suggest that a god exists at all.

It is actually more likely that the universe formed on it's own naturally (much like this planet and the solar system) than some being creating it out of nothing. If this planet can form on it's own without outside assistance then why can't the universe? God is just a concept created by the minds of men to try and fill in missing gaps. When we don't know something, we are too quick to say goddidit. It's irrational.
God is a baseless assertion and it has no credibility....at all! Which is why it's so quickly dismissed/rejected.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan

Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.

Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.

You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
#48
RE: Godhead & theists
Quote:It is actually more likely that the universe formed on it's own naturally (much like this planet and the solar system) than some being creating it out of nothing. If this planet can form on it's own without outside assistance then why can't the universe?
do you believe that this nature is wise and have a system?also i want to know what you believe about the soul do you think there is something beyond our physical body or not?
Quote:God is just a concept created by the minds of men to try and fill in missing gaps. When we don't know something, we are too quick to say goddidit. It's irrational.
i dont know about all theists but for me i believe that anything is caused by something if we dont know it now we may know it later but the difference is i say that this is how god created it and you say that this is how it is on its own.(if am right explain this to me as i dont understand how could someone believe that something is created without a creator)
i believe that god put a cause for things to happen so when we know that the universe started with the big bang that doesnt mean that it was created on its own but this is the cause god made for the universe to exist
#49
RE: Godhead & theists
(July 22, 2010 at 9:30 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: also i want to know what you believe about the soul do you think there is something beyond our physical body or not?
What would you need that for??
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
#50
RE: Godhead & theists
Quote:do you believe that this nature is wise and have a system?also i want to know what you believe about the soul do you think there is something beyond our physical body or not?
No on the first question and no on the second. I don't believe that nature is wise (in the sense that it has some kind of intelligance) and that it isn't a system. Nature is the random chance event that isn't directed by any outside force or intelligance. Like it's the natural chance event that this planet formed by the uncollected material flying through space. With the help of gravity the uncollected material comes together. No intelligance needed. Also I don't believe in the existance of a soul or anything of the sort. You are the brain, 100% of it. When it dies, so do you. The stored knowledge, memory, ect ect will be gone. You cease to exist.

Quote:i dont know about all theists but for me i believe that anything is caused by something if we dont know it now we may know it later but the difference is i say that this is how god created it and you say that this is how it is on its own.(if am right explain this to me as i dont understand how could someone believe that something is created without a creator)
i believe that god put a cause for things to happen so when we know that the universe started with the big bang that doesnt mean that it was created on its own but this is the cause god made for the universe to exist

Quote:if am right explain this to me as i dont understand how could someone believe that something is created without a creator)
This planet formed on it's own without a creator, the solar system came about without a creator, so did the galaxy...why can't the universe too? Natural forces and random chance events can easily bring all this about. You and I exist by sheer chance, if your parents had sex a minute off and you would not be here. Random chance determines all. You don't need a creator for something to exist.

Quote:i believe that god put a cause for things to happen so when we know that the universe started with the big bang that doesnt mean that it was created on its own but this is the cause god made for the universe to exist
You believe in god so you are going to believe in purpose and cause by intelligance. I on the other hand don't believe in god and so any cause from my point of view is a natural one. I cannot say how the universe formed and nor can you, neither of us know. It's just you believe god was behind it and I don't.
There is no evidence for god but there is evidence to suggest that god was never needed for the universe to form. I don't think we can ever disprove god's existance but we can prove that god was never needed for anything. I think it's only a matter of time.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan

Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.

Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.

You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.



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