the straw men of premarital sex.

[brewer]

The no premarital sex tenet predates abortion. You need to consider the motive during the time that religion(s) formed. In today's society does that motive still apply?

[Minimalist]

The theist mind says "God says premarital sex is bad so we must shoot down this argument any way we can."

That's actually not true, you can look it up in the Bible yourself. Only unmarried women are expected to keep fidelity, men can have sex with any woman besides the wife of another man and it isn't sinful.

Yup.  If I were going to write the rules that is exactly how I'd write them, too!

[KevinM1]

Well, the women are supposed to be breeding stock. I mean, if the Duggars are wrong, I don't wanna be right.

[Crossless2.0]

The no premarital sex tenet predates abortion. You need to consider the motive during the time that religion(s) formed. In today's society does that motive still apply?

[Religious Believer]: There you go again with your atheistic moral relativism! God's commands aren't subject to the whims of history and cultural change (unless I personally find it inconvenient, in which case I can find some scriptural basis to justify overlooking the perfect divinely-inspired moral code).

Seriously, though, you have a point. After all, most of us no longer think of our daughters as property, and the idea that someone (fetishists aside) can fuck one's property would strike most people these days as rather odd.

[robvalue]

Logan: Don't worry if you accidentally make a logical fallacy! The important thing is you're interested in learning and improving. The reason to point out these errors is to try and help people improve their thinking. I'm sure it happens to everyone now and again. I still have to police my own thinking, although it becomes easier with practice.

[vorlon13]

LOL, just occurs to me with the legalization of gay marriage, we can now differentiate between premarital and marital sex just like the heteros.

With premarital (and no possibility of marital) as the only venue back then, I didn't appreciate how legalization would add state sanctioned marital gay sex, and with that alternative, the premarital sex has an additional blush of illicitness it did not have before. I didn't think we could improve beyond esoteric stuff I'm into these days, but it looks like thanks to the Supreme Court, there is a new edginess and taint of the sordid that did not exist before there was a marital alternative.

Cool!!

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The theist mind says "God says premarital sex is bad so we must shoot down this argument any way we can."

That's actually not true, you can look it up in the Bible yourself. Only unmarried women are expected to keep fidelity, men can have sex with any woman besides the wife of another man and it isn't sinful.

Well, actually it IS true. Logan's claim is that theists believe that God says premarital sex is bad. Theists do believe that.

Boru

[brewer]

The no premarital sex tenet predates abortion. You need to consider the motive during the time that religion(s) formed. In today's society does that motive still apply?

[Religious Believer]: There you go again with your atheistic moral relativism! God's commands aren't subject to the whims of history and cultural change (unless I personally find it inconvenient, in which case I can find some scriptural basis to justify overlooking the perfect divinely-inspired moral code).

Seriously, though, you have a point. After all, most of us no longer think of our daughters as property, and the idea that someone (fetishists aside) can fuck one's property would strike most people these days as rather odd.

I believe it was more than a property issue. Think of the hardship it would be for single woman raising a child back in antiquity. No home, no income, no parenting support unless the woman's parents took her in and that may have been questionable. The parents may also become societal outcasts. Shit, it was that way up until the 20th century. What parent would wish that upon their daughter. It was more likely a societal issue than god issue or property issue.

[loganonekenobi]

The no premarital sex tenet predates abortion. You need to consider the motive during the time that religion(s) formed. In today's society does that motive still apply?

That is a very good question that I don't believe the religious care about. I dont think they would like the answer.

[Silver]

My answer: theists are fucking dumb. They are hypocritical and their arguments are usually illogical.