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Free will
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 (May 11, 2016 at 7:52 pm)IATIA Wrote:(May 7, 2016 at 8:20 am)Shadow_Man Wrote: God is not a terrorist. Well you do portray a view of God. I would say that the perspective is a bit skewed. Imagine viewing it all from his perspective instead of ours. 
From god's point of view.
"Look at those dumb fucks down there. They'll just believe any stupid shit. Why would they think I need their worship? They're nothing but an ant farm at best. Pfffft! Come on, let's go. Next round's on you, right?"
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy (May 11, 2016 at 8:10 pm)chrisdubbya Wrote: Well you do portray a view of God. I would say that the perspective is a bit skewed. Imagine viewing it all from his perspective instead of ours. If only someone could explain how we might do that, and what a gods perspective would look like...huh?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (May 11, 2016 at 8:10 pm)chrisdubbya Wrote:(May 11, 2016 at 7:52 pm)IATIA Wrote: Rather god is worse than any terrorist. "Love me and worship me or BURN IN HELL forever" and relative to the eternal realm of all space-time, we get 1-0.999... seconds to make this choice. What part of that is not terrorism? That is literally how god is portrayed in the bible and god of the bible and jesus are not all loving at all. There is no fluffy bunny i love you all jesus not at all. god and jesus in the bible are not nice characters at all. Not nice is probably not even a good description of how they really are at all.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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Apparently CW is just a hit and run.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy  (May 11, 2016 at 8:10 pm)chrisdubbya Wrote:(May 11, 2016 at 7:52 pm)IATIA Wrote: Rather god is worse than any terrorist. "Love me and worship me or BURN IN HELL forever" and relative to the eternal realm of all space-time, we get 1-0.999... seconds to make this choice. What part of that is not terrorism? Welcome to the forum! 
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum
Rhythm,
Rhythm Wrote:@shadow. If the future can be known, then the future is set. Your future "choices" - are set. Nothing between this moment and those moments can change the outcomes, or your mind. You have merely re-stated the claim of the OP, and I have addressed that argument multiple times within this thread. Please see posts #41, 58, 66, 69, and 81. I actually responded to you personally in post #41 about this same topic, but you may not have been alerted because my response to you was concatenated with my response to mh.brewer by the forum software. The software apparently thought I was a spambot. If you read back through those posts, maybe you will think so, too. Regards, Shadow_Man RE: Free will
May 12, 2016 at 7:55 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2016 at 8:31 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Thanks for the heads up - I did miss your post. Honestly, you haven't changed much between our positions at this point. You're still denying what must be true of a claim to foreknowledge in order to maintain a claim to free will.... and I still don't think we're talking about the same thing when we use words like choice or free will.
The anecdote regarding your -post- event knowledge of a random dice roll and how that speaks to -fore-knowledge was particularly inept - if you care about that sort of shit, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
IATIA,
I hope you don't mind if I reply to two of your posts in just this one post. IATIA Wrote:What do you mean "if Christianity was true"? I mean exactly what you say here - IATIA Wrote:Would I choose Hell over heaven? I do not believe in either, but for sake of argument, I would absolutely choose Hell over heaven.Both you and many of your fellows have said that even if they believed that the Christian God existed, they would still reject Him. It is your if, not mine. IATIA Wrote:It is once the tyrannical, warmongering god comes into the picture that one chooses hell. Heaven offers nothing but servitude. The opposition of god offers true freedom. It was god's opposition that helped free Adam and Eve. No killings can be directly attributed to god's opposition. One can bring up Job's story, but firstly, there is nothing that says god's opposition did the actual killing, only that it participated in a bet which resulted in killing. It may be the opposition did not really expect god to kill just to make a point or god's opposition may never have participated in the bet in the first place. Most of that is off topic, and I have no interest in derailing this thread to discuss it here. One topic is more than enough to deal with in one thread. However, I did like this part - IATIA Wrote:Heaven offers nothing but servitude. The opposition of god offers true freedom. To robots like yourself, neither freedom nor servitude have any meaning at all. Shadow_Man Wrote:And that is your problem. I know it is frustrating, but it is not that I am missing the point. I totally understand your point. I just consider that your point is contradicted by other logical truths, and your point is therefore invalid. IATIA Wrote:You cannot have free will and a future any more than god making a rock so heavy it cannot be moved by god. I realize that by definition there is no one infinity that is bigger than another infinity. But that analogy does not apply here, and is a discussion for another thread. IATIA Wrote:If the future exists, then we are the past. There is no present. There is no moment when free will can be or has been expressed. Every moment of your existence has already happened (or been created). If you are expressing free will right now, then there is no future. The future cannot exist under a free will scenario until the choice is made. If the future exists, then right now you are obligated to follow that path, i.e., no free will. If the future exists then there is no choice to make and no free will. We are at the point in every thread where we have made our arguments and are just repeating ourselves. I am content to let my arguments stand, and to give you that last word on the subject. I will only reply again if you bring something new to the table. Thank you for the discussion. Regards, Shadow_Man
SO i will just say this SM
is god all knowing yes or no i don't need a long witted talk or some half backed conclusion just a simple yes or no.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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