Free will

[Thomas Kelly252525]

--@Kelley

I think that's a poorly formed question.  I -am- my cells.--

A person may be only a slave to cells and they are their master.

[Spirian]

@Spir

Isn't that an awfully vague description of free will..that's untrue on it's face?  Can you do whatever you like...and in what way is that free, and from what?

As I said, I lack sufficient data to make a concrete determination. As far as what I'm free from - a god's will apart from my own. I can do whatever I like according to my physical and mental abilities. I don't believe a god is controlling my thoughts and actions.

[The Grand Nudger]

@ Kelly
Poorly formed and for the same reason.  I -am- my cells..not a slave to them...I -am- my cells, they are not a master to me.  There's no separation no slave/master relationship...and none of this has anything to do with whether or not I have free will. Are we just going to repeat ourselves, from here on out? If it was wrong the first time, it won't turn right through repetition.

@Spir
I don;t think that any god is controlling my actions either...but it seems like the bar for free will has to be higher than that? When you describe it, you describe what it is in accordance with, not what it is free from (save god, granted, but unless you believe in a god that's not very informative anyway - more a statement that things that don't exist don't effect us). Doesn't that seem counterintuitive and maybe even a little self defeating?

[Spirian]

My will is free from control by the will of any other. Lock me in a physical cage, and I'll fly in my imagination. Take away my comforts, and I'll create new ones from thought. My will is not bound by physical experience. Others may seek to control the actions of my flesh, but they cannot reach the freedom of my mind, where as best as I can tell, my will resides and exercises it's freedom.

[The Grand Nudger]

I think they can reach that freedom, as it;s defined.  You can beat that shit right out of people. You can get more creative with it as well. Still though,. I wonder whether or not it;s an assumption made by terminus. As in, -how- is that achieved. Because if the thing we call free will is, as you mentioned before..incredibly sophisticated 0/1 combos......is that really our idea of free will..but would it change our experience of free will if it were?

[Thomas Kelly252525]

--It just keeps talking, lol.  Awesome.--Did you choose to type that ? Did you think no, then you are only a slave.  

 A choice you may make, try prove precisely, yes or no this--Your comments need to be rescued, because they were non-sequiturs,--


--and you may -not-  be ignorant, and may -not- be trolling us.--Did you think that was a good set of words ? If yes, then you made a choice.



--_-It might be said that it's a courtesy to clean up the messes others make, by some.
--

Did you think that above was wise if someone put that to you ? If no, you made a choice.  If you didn't know about that then you had the potential to choose by increase in knowledge by use of wisdom.

---

[The Grand Nudger]

[quote='Rhythm' pid='1304180' dateline='1466100376']


Did you choose to type that ? Did you think no, then you are only a slave.  

Why would it matter if I did......in relation to free will.....and why is it you consistently reply with non seq statements?  The former is my response to all of your questions, the latter just an idle curiosity aimed at this particular response.

[madog]

regardless of whether or not there is free will many Christians try to indoctrinate children to surrender their free will ... This is done with promises of reward/heaven and punishment/hell.

To a child these are more powerful than any reward/punishment experiments done on lab animals ... these carrot and stick experiments usually influence the animals choices for the rest of their lives, as we can see happen with indoctrinated kids.

I actually believe the heaven/hell threat is more potent than a sharp shock to kiddies and is inflicted/threatened by the church for the rest of their lives.

By the time kids grow up and can think for themselves its no wonder they are wary of throwing out the indoctrination. Like with animals why touch a live wire even if reason tells you there is no electricity supply?

[Spirian]

Because if the thing we call free will is, as you mentioned before..incredibly sophisticated 0/1 combos......is that really our idea of free will..but would it change our experience of free will if it were?

As I said, the code may deliberately obscure our apprehension of free will, thus rendering our entire discussion moot. Once again, apart from certain knowledge, everything else is speculative, and speculation leads to debates without a foundation.

[The Grand Nudger]

It wouldn't need to be deliberate, I don't think. We don't deliberaterly obscure our apprehension of our field of view, but some of what we see is not a factual representation regardless. Do you have much confidence regarding our investigation of the brain?  I think that it's ungenerous to say that we don;t have a foundation. What is the certain knowledge?