Islam in Europe: perception and reality

[Heat]

It's hard to respect anyone who generalizes entire swathes of people as "scum" based on their faith. Here, do some math for us real quick-like, okay? How many Muslims currently live in Europe? How many have committed an act of terror?
soon.

what if their faith tells them to kill you and everybody that is not muslim ? oh, you still won't do that, cuz it's not PC huh
If you lived with muslims your whole life, you'll understand that generalizing is only fair.

By the way, for that 6% to increase to 20%, you'd have to see 70 million Muslims move there. I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.

by their breeding rates, they will reach that number if not more.

Christianity tells people to stone people to death for working on the Sabbath.


You're making a fatal error in assuming that all 1.4 billion Muslims interpret the Quran in the exact same way and that way happens to be your most extreme fear-mongering literal definition of the book. Go ahead, use the term "Politically Correct" as a blanket covering up the faulty accusations, assumptions, and premises that you've conjured up in your imagination. Your failure to deduce any likely hood that your worst initial fears are in equivalence to the little kid afraid of the monster in his closet only speaks for how little you actually know about the real world and how much you want to bandwagon on a claim filled with hatred that has simply no backing.

The fear that you've indulged in with society and swiftly struck down the opposition with empty remarks of political correctness is only a ploy taken on by a massive population of conclusion-jumpers in an effort to cast away an entire group by citing book passages giving the comforting illusion that the monstrous terror attacks are something we should have seen coming all along, a coping mechanism so that you can deal with the atrocities such as random acts of mass-violence by explaining them as foreshadowed events with a single group to blame, when otherwise you cannot.

[Silver]

You have a hard on for political correctness, but not for reality. How sad.

[Marsellus Wallace]

what if their faith tells them to kill you and everybody that is not muslim ? oh, you still won't do that, cuz it's not PC huh
If you lived with muslims your whole life, you'll understand that generalizing is only fair.

Not, it's not about PC for me, asshole. You should only impute motives to people you know.

I've lived in two Muslim nations -- Iran and Saudi Arabia -- for a total of five years. While that isn't the lifetime you're demanding, I feel that it's plenty of experience upon which to base my opinion.

by their breeding rates, they will reach that number if not more.

I asked you for numbers about terrorist individuals versus total Muslim population in the EU.  Why are you not providing them?

And since you've added this birthrate claim, please support it with numbers, too. Remember, it won't be enough to show a higher birthrate. Show a birthrate curve, when you think it will reach 20%, and while you're at it, make sure  you take into account the correlation between poverty (and wealth) on birthrates.

When you reply to this post, bring hard numbers. I'm not interested in your personal biases or anecdotes. I want facts. Bring 'em.

first time to be called an asshole in this forum, and for what ? for calling a bunch of nazi-like-muslims-jihadi motherfuckers what they are, and the muslims that are supporting them and agreeing with what they do, alot of muslims support these anti-human extreme ideas. google these poll results, cuz i'm not gonna do a search for you.

you have been to Iran and saudi, and that's your experience ?  a fucking visit to sandland hell !!!
I lived in Egypt my whole life(unfortunately), I used to be a muslim, I know what i'm talking about, stop defending these people, they'll bomb you with no hesitation.

[Marsellus Wallace]

what if their faith tells them to kill you and everybody that is not muslim ? oh, you still won't do that, cuz it's not PC huh
If you lived with muslims your whole life, you'll understand that generalizing is only fair.


by their breeding rates, they will reach that number if not more.

Christianity tells people to stone people to death for working on the Sabbath.


You're making a fatal error in assuming that all 1.4 billion Muslims interpret the Quran in the exact same way and that way happens to be your most extreme fear-mongering literal definition of the book. Go ahead, use the term "Politically Correct" as a blanket covering up the faulty accusations, assumptions, and premises that you've conjured up in your imagination. Your failure to deduce any likely hood that your worst initial fears are in equivalence to the little kid afraid of the monster in his closet only speaks for how little you actually know about the real world and how much you want to bandwagon on a claim filled with hatred that has simply no backing.

The fear that you've indulged in with society and swiftly struck down the opposition with empty remarks of political correctness is only a ploy taken on by a massive population of conclusion-jumpers in an effort to cast away an entire group by citing book passages giving the comforting illusion that the monstrous terror attacks are something we should have seen coming all along, a coping mechanism so that you can deal with the atrocities such as random acts of mass-violence by explaining them as foreshadowed events with a single group to blame, when otherwise you cannot.

no, not assuming that, but they interpret it in the worst ways possible.
yeah, it's too much PC, when people from the same group of faith is attacking and you're still ok with it.
better safe and afraid than sorry.
maybe call them people who know what's gonna happen next based on previous experience. and when exactly is it not gonna be conclusion jumping, I guess it's gonna be at the end when they fuck everyone in the ass.

[Heat]

You have a hard on for political correctness, but not for reality.  How sad.

The funniest part is that I didn't even know what political correctness was until I was accused of willingly and purposely doing it on this forum a couple months ago.

And after learning what it means, I still really don't give a shit. It's still just an empty phrase used to avoid expressing what one really thinks.

[paulpablo]

so only 6% are muslims and can do all that damage and show the true colour of their culture....,and they're still thinking about allowing more of these scums into europe ?!!
let's see what happens when it's 20% and they take over more neighbourhoods.

It's hard to respect anyone who generalizes entire swathes of people as "scum" based on their faith. Here, do some math for us real quick-like, okay? How many Muslims currently live in Europe? How many have committed an act of terror?

Divide the latter by the former, and give us the percentage.

By the way, for that 6% to increase to 20%, you'd have to see 70 million Muslims move there. I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.

I agree that calling them all scum is far fetched, although I also agree that these small percentages are doing damage and not just via terrorism.  Of course there's a lot of people from Islamic countries like ex Muslims and more intelligent people in general who like ideas of equality and secular education.  The other group is made up largely of men with low market value in terms of career prospects and low sex market value which is disastrous when combined with a culture of gender inequality. In Norway they're giving out lessons to asylum seekers from Islamic countries on why it's bad to rape, everyone knows what happened in Germany, it's happening in Sweden.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Personally I think the best way for filtering immigrants into a country is a rigorous IQ test and language test to see if they will be able to communicate with other people once in the country.

[abaris]

by their breeding rates, they will reach that number if not more.

That statement in itself disqualifies you on too many levels to mention.

As for the killing part, I guess you've read the Quran from cover to cover. Couldn't be that you're just going by what your rightwinger buddies tell you, or can it?

[Regina]

I don't think the "6%" statistic says much at the national level though.

Here in the UK, the national statistic is "only" something like 4% - but that ignores how a large proportion of that "4%" tends to band together into Muslim-majority neighbourhoods. These neighbourhoods are, there's no better phrase, absolute bastions of Islam. You wouldn't feel any type of way by "6%" of a country being a particular faith, if they were evenly spread among the general population (the way Jews, Hindus, and Christian minorities are in most societies). When you have literally entire neighbourhoods dominated by Islam though, especially when they often have disapproving attitudes towards modern Western lifestyles, it's understandable why people feel ways about that.

And people are still caught up in the "not all Muslims!" I see as well. We know that, I personally know a few Muslims who are integrated, modern, liberal. But that doesn't change how still a very large segment (who are often very loud, and sometimes violent) are highly conservative and struggle to fit in within European society. Overall it's a conservative culture, while modern European cultures (again, overall, not completely) aren't. There is naturally going to be conflict there.

[Thumpalumpacus]

first time to be called an asshole in this forum, and for what ? for calling a bunch of nazi-like-muslims-jihadi motherfuckers what they are, and the muslims that are supporting them and agreeing with what they do, alot of muslims support these anti-human extreme ideas. google these poll results, cuz i'm not gonna do a search for you.

No, I called you an asshole for your willingness to generalize all Muslims as scum.

Don't like it? Tough shit. Maybe next time you'll think before you post.

Now, I had asked you for numbers, and you still haven't brought them. Either you have facts or you don't, and it is not my job to make your point for you. That's lazy argumentation. I suspect the real reason you don't have any numbers available because you ran your mouth without having any facts about Europe at hand ... and learning is too much hassle when you have your preconceived notions to protect.

I know the numbers, because as a lawyer I once dated told me, "I never ask a question unless I already know the answer."

You're welcome to be stupid. But if you're going to be publicly stupid, you shouldn't expect a free pass.

you have been to Iran and saudi, and that's your experience ?  a fucking visit to sandland hell !!!

Five years living there is a little bit more than a "visit", yeah. I should hope you know the difference, but I have my doubts. I'm certainly having to revamp my previous opinion of you and what I had thought about your intelligence.

I lived in Egypt my whole life(unfortunately), I used to be a muslim, I know what i'm talking about, stop defending these people, they'll bomb you with no hesitation.

Yes, and I know what I'm talking about too. You're wrong about generalizing them as scum.

Oddly enough, in the five years I lived in the Middle East, not once was I blown to pieces, your dire warning notwithstanding.

Stop being an asshole. Seriously.

[Thumpalumpacus]

And people are still caught up in the "not all Muslims!" I see as well. We know that, I personally know a few Muslims who are integrated, modern, liberal. But that doesn't change how still a very large segment (who are often very loud, and sometimes violent) are highly conservative and struggle to fit in within European society. Overall it's a conservative culture, while modern European cultures (again, overall, not completely) aren't. There is naturally going to be conflict there.

What I was, and am, arguing with is this idea that "Muslims are scum who will blow you up!", with no nuance. I'm not saying that there are no integration issues; I'm not saying that there are no violent Muslims.

But when I see overbroad generalizations that slur people I know and love, I'm going to pipe up.