Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe

[Goosebump]

Is there a point to this thread, having actually wasted my life reading it, other then a bizarre and misplaced want for "kudos" in not subscribing to the predominates but finding something in the nuance of the nonsense and still believing? Is that about the summary of this thing?

I feel I'm doing this by even responding:



Why should I take care of your shit?

[WinterHold]

[WinterHold]

so Atlas, lemme get this straight... you don't like shia and you don't like sunni, so you made up your own religion based on Islam and called it Islam ? Brilliant..

Why don't you just admit that it's an awful religion ? you're just like moderate muslims, not being muslims, but calling themselves mulsims...

lol

Mister Agenda

You can consider such sub branches grouped under the umbrella of either Sunna or Shia sources.
Disproving the source, would disprove all the sub branches.

Goosebump

Come on goose ! I thought you were ...mmm...IDK.
It's an Islamic section, so I don't what you would expect something else..

Why are you obsessed with human feces? It looks like you want kudos too, so...here ya go.

[Mystic]

Bani-Israel were preferred over the worlds through God's grace but were not actually chosen like Prophets are. They were selected but not chosen. Chosen (astafa) implies they are special servants of God that God deemed them way higher and way better and chose them in that sense for roles.

Rather they were tried with respect to God's chosen ones, and through disobeying them, they merited God's punishment.

Bani-Israel weren't simply given a book and left to themselves. Allah [swt] appointed leaders who guide by his command among them.

[Mystic]

As for brothers of Yusuf, they weren't chosen like Yusuf was.

But what does Quran say about the family of Nuh. It says "He is not of your family, verily his conduct is other then righteous". So whoever has conduct other then righteous cannot be included in the family of Nuh for example. It excludes them all.

The true family of Prophets consists of chosen ones:

"Indeed God chose Adam and Nuh and the family of Abraham and the family of Imran above the worlds.
Offspring some it from some, indeed God is the Hearing, the Knowing"

[ReptilianPeon]

Aisha isn't special, there is a verse though describing "all" the wives of being the mothers of Muslims:

Even Eve was the first woman? Literally, if the Quran considers her a literal person (unlike, apparently, the Hebrew of Genesis), she would be the "mother of all believers"? Wahaabi-Salafi are determined to convince Christians (and Jews) that everyone in the Bible followed exactly what Muhammad taught - even when what they taught contradicts what Wahaabi-Safali believe.

Jew drink alcohol - Noah was a alcoholic according the Bible. Christians believe Jesus turned water into alcohol. You provided your evidences that many caliphs drunk alcohol and clarified the Quran Iyah. But all of this doesn't matter to Wahaabi-Salafi - the are at war with reality, and Tasbih, shutting down conversations which they don't like and bombs seem to be their only weapons (and Saudi is a prime example of this). They want to ignore those parts of the Bible and simply tell people that Jesus prays like them according to the Bible and anything else convenient to them.

I knew about the Grand Mosque Seizure. Probably the same people that killed King Fasiel because they didn't want Saudi to have its own television station. Apparently TV was too "Western" for some Wahaabi-Salafi scholars. Yet these are the same people who, today, flood YouTube with garbage to try and convince us Kuffar (and I include you because you do many supposedly Haram things). Funny how things turn out. Interpretation is driven by desire: The more their message spreads, the more money they get from donations, but they are, of course, all subsidized by Saudi. So now we have a breed of Western born so-called "scholars" like the comedic man in the first video.

About that video, I love how he spreads his logic using the power of "whey protein"..my problem with these folks is one thing: they're so full of themselves. 
What I love about this breed is how they make the Quran make so much sense :

Ah..
You again, bring me a video that would contribute to my early death with a brain damage -_-..

Probably the kind of man who supports that Saudi Shekyh that recently said it's Halal to each your wife if you're starving. You can look it up. Whether or not it's actually true that he said that I don't know; you know the media. These Western coverts to Wahaabi/Salafi doctrine they care more about money than truth. They go around the world giving speeches where they pretend to educate people. And those they have on puppet strings are too busy with Tasbih (like you say, Allah the ATM) to care that their giving their money to scammers.

The second video though was great. I ask you MNMP to wait for me to make my mind about a proper response, too many good points in the video.

Shabir Ali can do that. He's one of the better Da'is (not sure if he's been brainwashed by Saudi like the others, but at least he appears somewhat intelligent). The fact that he actually allows women to show their faces on camera is clearly a sign that he's a lot more sane than many of the others.

What I took away from Shabir's video is: Yes, the Hadith are confusing, but don't worry. Even though people can't agree on which Hadith and real and which are fake, you can buy lots of big and expensive books which will help you to make your mind up. It's up to you to go through each and every Hadith instead of throwing them all out. And don't just limit yourself to the standard "collections" of Hadith. Some outside of the standard collection may be good Hadith too. It doesn't matter that the (singe transmission ones at least) Hadith are like a game of Chinese Whispers, so, go on, delve right

And notice how they said that they were going to discuss "the nature of Satan" but the never did. That was silly. Those are the sorts of blunders I expect from somebody like DawahMan.

[Mystic]

From Imam Retha (the 8th Imam): “The Honorable the Exalted God gave distinction to the (prophetic) household over other people in the Wise Book.” Al-Ma’mun asked him (s), “Where is that in God’s Book?” Al-Reza (s) told him, “Indeed the Honorable the Exalted God says, ‘Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people. Offspring, one of the other: And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.’ In another place the Honorable the Exalted God says, ‘Or do they envy those people for what God hath given them of his bounty? So then We had already given the family of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great authority.’ He then addressed this effect to the rest of the believers, so he said: O ye who believe Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those with the Authority from you.’ This means those whom God has given them the Book and the Wisdom for which they are envied. Therefore, what is understood from the Honorable the Exalted God’s words, ‘Or do they envy the people for what God hath given them of his grace? So then We had already given the family of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great authority’ This refers to obeying the Chosen Pure ones.”, so the authority here refers to the obedience owed to them. 

[Mystic]

I just thought of another angle to 3:33. We know Prophets were chosen in all places all over the world. So what makes the offspring of Abraham unique and above the rest of the nations who had Prophets or offspring that had Prophets.

It surely then is referring to the fact, that the family of Abraham refers specifically to chosen ones.

So for example bani-hashim has Mohammad, but another tribe had x Prophet and another tribe had x Prophet...so what makes distinction above the whole world, when practically much of the world tribes had Prophets.

The fact is 3:33 has to be about chosen members who are exalted like Nuh and Adam.

[WinterHold]

[Mystic]

Words can be synonymous, but still, have different meaning. Synonyms are not all words with exact same meaning in all places. And in time sometimes words loose their original meaning. But we see in study of Quran, the word astafa is used in 12 verses, 13 times, and it has a special meaning.


If Bani-Israel was chosen, and they had people who disobeyed God and were cursed by God, then why did Quran say:

Peace be upon the servants of God that he has chosen (astafa)...


To you bani-Israel were chosen and not simply selected, but Quran is saying peace is upon all such servants, but then Quran is also saying many of Bani-Israel were cursed for disobeying God and his Messengers.