Parents not taking there crying child outside at a restaurant or store

[Joods]

I'll quote what I like. You don't have the authority to tell me what I can or cannot respond to. I made it absolutely clear in my post that the word "you" was a general word and not meant towards anyone specifically. I was giving my opinion on the matter, same as you. It's a forum. Get used to it.

[Brian37]

I fail to see why someone else's squalling brat should disrupt my own dining or shopping experience.  Don't mistake me - I quite like children.  I used to volunteer at a childrens' burn ward in Belfast and we're still involved with various local childrens' charities.

That being said, I've paid for both the meal and the dining experience, and I've a right to enjoy an adult evening without be subjected to the shrieking and crying of a child whose parents fail to see the problem.  On of the best mums I ever say took her bawling kid OUT of the restaurant proper to the al fresco area and told the child clearly and distinctly (and calmly), 'When you can act like a big boy, we'll go back and have our desserts.'  It worked.  But if it hadn't, I would have supported management asking them to push off.

Boru

Nothing is all or nothing. 

No it is not your fault someone else had sex and made a baby, but that does not mean those who do have them should be excluded from society always. It depends, I think any smart business owner is going to have a protocol to accommodate a diverse customers. 

I don't want kids, and like you I don't like being around screaming kids or babies. But our species would not be here, you wouldn't be here, and neither would I if our parents didn't have sex. I get it, but still it's not either or, but "It depends".

Single parents don't always have someone to care for their baby/kid, and middle class and working poor especially cant or dont have the money to have someone watch their kid. Not every venue is the Ritz or a college library. And if you go into a McDonalds which is family targeted sorry, you are SOL. 

You are right, they are not the center of the planet because they have kids, but you are also not the center of the planet because you dont. So each situation has to be case by case.  IT DEPENDS on context of situation.

[vorlon13]

That's gonna give me nightmares

as long as you're not screaming at Olive Garden

[Losty]

@Losty

Since I often take care of the kid while wife is working, she also got the "you are leaving her *alone*?" which is very insulting.

It's offensive to both parents and honestly I think the best fix is for people to grow more and more accustomed with the idea of fathers being parents and not just money makers and husbands who happen to live in the house with the kids.

But I must admit my quick fix of telling people to mind their own fucking business is also useful.

[Losty]

OP, this is precisely what Benadryl was made for! (joke, no backlash please)

Could follow the woman/child around the store screaming right behind them until they get the point.  (another joke, man I'm on this AM)

The woman should be approached and asked if she needs assistance. Also let her know that she/her child is adversely impacting the others shopping/eating experience and that they will need to leave until the child is calmed. This may cost the business owner a sale, but it's only one sale vs the many of other customers.

Ok kicking people out of shopping places is different. I suppose if it's some fancy high end clothing shop. People have to buy groceries and household supplies. Even single parents with babies and no money for a sitter. These are places they must go.

I get both sides. I really love children, but when I'm out and about I find other people's kids extremely annoying. There are two things that are distinctly more annoying than bratty kids in public. The first are parents who seem completely oblivious to their annoying child. The second are assholes who think it's appropriate for them to approach new parents and ask them to shut the little shit up. If a baby is crying, presumably everyone else involved is an adult and should know how to behave like one.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yup, that's what I would say. If you want to bring a screaming little monster into the world, fine. YOU deal with it. Don't force the creature on the rest of us.

It's much like religion. Have all of it you want but don't saddle me with it.

I trust then that you will refuse to collect Social Security payouts on principle?

Because it's my little monster who will be keeping you solvent.

Non-parents benefit from children, too.

[Thumpalumpacus]

There are two things that are distinctly more annoying than bratty kids in public. The first are parents who seem completely oblivious to their annoying child. The second are assholes who think it's appropriate for them to approach new parents and ask them to shut the little shit up. If a baby is crying, presumably everyone else involved is an adult and should know how to behave like one.

There's a third variety: those who think you want or need their unsolicited advice on how to handle your child.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I fail to see why someone else's squalling brat should disrupt my own dining or shopping experience.  Don't mistake me - I quite like children.  I used to volunteer at a childrens' burn ward in Belfast and we're still involved with various local childrens' charities.

That being said, I've paid for both the meal and the dining experience, and I've a right to enjoy an adult evening without be subjected to the shrieking and crying of a child whose parents fail to see the problem.  On of the best mums I ever say took her bawling kid OUT of the restaurant proper to the al fresco area and told the child clearly and distinctly (and calmly), 'When you can act like a big boy, we'll go back and have our desserts.'  It worked.  But if it hadn't, I would have supported management asking them to push off.

Boru

Nothing is all or nothing. 

No it is not your fault someone else had sex and made a baby, but that does not mean those who do have them should be excluded from society always.
I don't want kids, and like you I don't like being around screaming kids or babies. But our species would not be here, you wouldn't be here, and neither would I if our parents didn't have sex. I get it, but still it's not either or, but "It depends".It depends, I think any smart business owner is going to have a protocol to accommodate a diverse customers.


Single parents don't always have someone to care for their baby/kid, and middle class and working poor especially cant or dont have the money to have someone watch their kid. Not every venue is the Ritz or a college library. And if you go into a McDonalds which is family targeted sorry, you are SOL. 

You are right, they are not the center of the planet because they have kids, but you are also not the center of the planet because you dont. So each situation has to be case by case.  IT DEPENDS on context of situation.

Brian, I like you. You're clearly intelligent, you express yourself well and have a terrific sense of humour, and you're a much better than average poet. But you have the god-DAMNED-est habit of reading into posts things no one ever put there.

Nothing is all or nothing.

Who said it was?

No it is not your fault someone else had sex and made a baby, but that does not mean those who do have them should be excluded from society always.

When did I say that ANYone should be excluded from society? Expecting a manager to deal with a situation that is clearly disturbing other patrons hardly counts as 'exclusion'. People in restaurants, cinemas, or other public venues - whether child or adult - should be well-behaved and not cause a ruction.

It depends, I think any smart business owner is going to have a protocol to accommodate a diverse customers.

I agree completely, and part of that protocol should be that if a child is behaving in such a manner as to disturb other patrons and the patents don't correct the situation, it is incumbent upon the management to step in.

Single parents don't always have someone to care for their baby/kid, and middle class and working poor especially cant or dont have the money to have someone watch their kid.

Again, I don't disagree, and I've never said that parents shouldn't bring small children into public venues. As I said, I actively like children. Well-behaved children are an utter delight, but they're not the issue. And yes, I grasp the fact that a child can throw a tantrum. I'm not asking children to NOT act like children, I'm asking that parents be mindful of the fact that other people neither want nor should be subjected to the behaviour of an unruly child.

Not every venue is the Ritz or a college library.

Perfectly true - not every venue is kid-friendly, and parents should know better than to bring ill-behaved children into certain places.

And if you go into a McDonalds which is family targeted sorry, you are SOL.

I don't go into McDonald's, but I take your point. It would be as wrong of me to complain about unruly children there as it would be for parents to allow their kids to run wild at The White Lion.

You are right, they are not the center of the planet because they have kids, but you are also not the center of the planet because you dont. So each situation has to be case by case. IT DEPENDS on context of situation.

You seem to be accusing me of making a blanket assertion that ALL kids should be banned from ALL adult venues. Nothing could be further from the truth. But when I'm paying $300 for supper-for-two, I have a right to eat it without a two-years old at the next table shrieking like the Last Trump because his water glass is the wrong shape.

I don't CARE how kids act at McDonald's, or the park or the zoo or the playground or the beach. What I DO care about is when I'm at a grown-up place for grown-ups and neither parents nor management will do anything to manage a disturbance (any disturbance) that keeps me from enjoying myself.

Hope this clears it up.

Boru

[Brian37]

@Losty

Since I often take care of the kid while wife is working, she also got the "you are leaving her *alone*?" which is very insulting.

It's offensive to both parents and honestly I think the best fix is for people to grow more and more accustomed with the idea of fathers being parents and not just money makers and husbands who happen to live in the house with the kids.

But I must admit my quick fix of telling people to mind their own fucking business is also useful.

This is what a religion, and political ideology have done worldwide, the rich and powerful get everyone in fights with each other, and wallet issues get lost in the frey. It is simple evolution in reality, that the more balanced an ecosystem is and the less stressed out that life is the less conflict there is. 

Of course you wont get rid of those ideas. But you can foster more of an attitude that rolls of who does what should not matter as getting it done and the stability of more.

[Brian37]

Nothing is all or nothing. 

No it is not your fault someone else had sex and made a baby, but that does not mean those who do have them should be excluded from society always.
I don't want kids, and like you I don't like being around screaming kids or babies. But our species would not be here, you wouldn't be here, and neither would I if our parents didn't have sex. I get it, but still it's not either or, but "It depends".It depends, I think any smart business owner is going to have a protocol to accommodate a diverse customers.


Single parents don't always have someone to care for their baby/kid, and middle class and working poor especially cant or dont have the money to have someone watch their kid. Not every venue is the Ritz or a college library. And if you go into a McDonalds which is family targeted sorry, you are SOL. 

You are right, they are not the center of the planet because they have kids, but you are also not the center of the planet because you dont. So each situation has to be case by case.  IT DEPENDS on context of situation.

Brian, I like you.  You're clearly intelligent, you express yourself well and have a terrific sense of humour, and you're a much better than average poet.  But you have the god-DAMNED-est habit of reading into posts things no one ever put there.

Nothing is all or nothing.

Who said it was?

No it is not your fault someone else had sex and made a baby, but that does not mean those who do have them should be excluded from society always.

When did I say that ANYone should be excluded from society?  Expecting a manager to deal with a situation that is clearly disturbing other patrons hardly counts as 'exclusion'.  People in restaurants, cinemas, or other public venues - whether child or adult - should be well-behaved and not cause a ruction.  

It depends, I think any smart business owner is going to have a protocol to accommodate a diverse customers.

I agree completely, and part of that protocol should be that if a child is behaving in such a manner as to disturb other patrons and the patents don't correct the situation, it is incumbent upon the management to step in.

Single parents don't always have someone to care for their baby/kid, and middle class and working poor especially cant or dont have the money to have someone watch their kid.

Again, I don't disagree, and I've never said that parents shouldn't bring small children into public venues.  As I said, I actively like children.  Well-behaved children are an utter delight, but they're not the issue.  And yes, I grasp the fact that a child can throw a tantrum.  I'm not asking children to NOT act like children, I'm asking that parents be mindful of the fact that other people neither want nor should be subjected to the behaviour of an unruly child.

Not every venue is the Ritz or a college library.

Perfectly true - not every venue is kid-friendly, and parents should know better than to bring ill-behaved children into certain places.

And if you go into a McDonalds which is family targeted sorry, you are SOL.

I don't go into McDonald's, but I take your point.  It would be as wrong of me to complain about unruly children there as it would be for parents to allow their kids to run wild at The White Lion.

You are right, they are not the center of the planet because they have kids, but you are also not the center of the planet because you dont. So each situation has to be case by case.  IT DEPENDS on context of situation.

You seem to be accusing me of making a blanket assertion that ALL kids should be banned from ALL adult venues.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  But when I'm paying $300 for supper-for-two, I have a right to eat it without a two-years old at the next table shrieking like the Last Trump because his water glass is the wrong shape.

I don't CARE how kids act at McDonald's, or the park or the zoo or the playground or the beach.  What I DO care about  is when I'm at a grown-up place for grown-ups and neither parents nor management will do anything to manage a disturbance (any disturbance) that keeps me from enjoying myself.

Hope this clears it up.

Boru

Don't you dare tell me I read too much into everything. THERE WAS A THIRD MAN ON THE GRASSY KNOLL AND OBAMA KILLED THE DINOSAURS! And if you play Dancing Queen backwards, you can hear Tinky Winky and Jerry Falwell making out. IT IS TRUE, Alex Jones said so!

Seems that we are not far off at all. If the venue is intended to be quiet and adult, yea. But even then people have kids and even the middle class and working poor also deserve access to those adult venues. So it still is a balance and still depends. Be flexible.