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RE: Problems understanding naturalistically the beginning of the universe
May 7, 2016 at 4:41 am
(May 7, 2016 at 4:38 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Can someone point out to me when the cause of something has been discovered to actually be supernatural, coz if that has never happened I am putting all such explanations for things in the can be safely ignored file.
You give a consistent definition of "supernatural" first, because honestly, I don't really understand what the word means.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
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RE: Problems understanding naturalistically the beginning of the universe
May 7, 2016 at 5:02 am
(May 7, 2016 at 4:41 am)Alex K Wrote: You give a consistent definition of "supernatural" first, because honestly, I don't really understand what the word means.
And while we're at it - if "supernatural" things were to exist, wouldn't it stand to reason, that there should also be "subnatural" ones? Nobody ever talks about those... 
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Problems understanding naturalistically the beginning of the universe
May 7, 2016 at 5:03 am
(May 7, 2016 at 5:02 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: (May 7, 2016 at 4:41 am)Alex K Wrote: You give a consistent definition of "supernatural" first, because honestly, I don't really understand what the word means.
And while we're at it - if "supernatural" things were to exist, wouldn't it stand to reason, that there should also be "subnatural" ones? Nobody ever talks about those...
What? People talk about Donald Trump all. the. time.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Problems understanding naturalistically the beginning of the universe
May 7, 2016 at 5:22 am
(This post was last modified: May 7, 2016 at 5:23 am by robvalue.)
(May 7, 2016 at 4:38 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Can someone point out to me when the cause of something has been discovered to actually be supernatural, coz if that has never happened I am putting all such explanations for things in the can be safely ignored file.
I think there's an inherent problem. If anything is shown to be supernatural, a cause or otherwise, then it's not supernatural. It's detectable in some way by our primitive natural science. If the cause hasn't been detected, then it has just been assumed.
I agree with Alex, I don't know what the word is meant to mean. It just seems to be not just an argument from ignorance, but an appeal to it. "Stuff we don't understand."
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RE: Problems understanding naturalistically the beginning of the universe
May 7, 2016 at 5:22 am
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: Problems understanding naturalistically the beginning of the universe
May 7, 2016 at 5:27 am
(May 7, 2016 at 5:22 am)ignoramus Wrote: ![[Image: 13qr1r.jpg]](https://i.imgflip.com/13qr1r.jpg)
So he was behind the LHC breakdown! Makes sense...
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
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RE: Problems understanding naturalistically the beginning of the universe
May 7, 2016 at 5:28 am
Oh yeah, people think we can somehow "rule out all natural causes".
Even any potential ones we can't detect yet, or may never detect. What utter bullshit. We can speculate that may be the case, but what's the point? A few years later when the answer comes along, what did we gain by guessing and sticking Jesus into the gap?
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RE: Problems understanding naturalistically the beginning of the universe
May 7, 2016 at 5:34 am
(May 7, 2016 at 5:28 am)robvalue Wrote: Oh yeah, people think we can somehow "rule out all natural causes".
Even any potential ones we can't detect yet, or may never detect. What utter bullshit. We can speculate that may be the case, but what's the point? A few years later when the answer comes along, what did we gain by guessing and sticking Jesus into the gap?
What is an unnatural cause though?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Problems understanding naturalistically the beginning of the universe
May 7, 2016 at 5:52 am
(This post was last modified: May 7, 2016 at 5:53 am by robvalue.)
I have no idea about that either. No one has given me a sensible definition. They usually try and default to dictionary definitions, which involve what people know. So something can be un/supernatural to one person and not to another. Fucking ludicrous.
When they're embarrassed to say "magic", which is what they really mean, it gets painful. But magic is equally poorly defined anyway.
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RE: Problems understanding naturalistically the beginning of the universe
May 7, 2016 at 5:54 am
(This post was last modified: May 7, 2016 at 5:55 am by Alex K.)
(May 7, 2016 at 5:52 am)robvalue Wrote: I have no idea about that either. No one has given me a sensible definition. They usually try and default to dictionary definitions, which involve what people know. So something can be un/supernatural to one person and not to another. Fucking ludicrous.
When they're embarrassed to say "magic", which is what they really mean, it gets painful. But magic is equally poorly defined anyway.
Any definition of the word which would have rendered electrical lawn mowers and toasters "supernatural" 200 years ago is not very interesting, let alone radio waves.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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