Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
154
RE: Can you persuade me from Agnostic to Atheist?
May 20, 2016 at 2:36 am
(This post was last modified: May 20, 2016 at 2:41 am by robvalue.)
The existence of "an intelligent creator" is a very different question to characters from storybooks being real. These two are at opposite sides of an insurmountable gulf, but theists often conflate the two in an effort to gain credibility under the guise of the first then hoping no one notices when they switch in their cartoon character.
To me, believing that the characters in the books are not real is perfectly reasonable. It's a simple application of scepticism. I have videos about scepticism too, if you are interested. I'm a strong atheist regarding these laughable ideas.
Believing that there was not, at some point, some intelligence somehow involved in the creation/manifestation of this reality, is not something I can so easily dismiss. But it's also incredibly irrelevant. We're a computer simulation? Who cares. We're a manifestation of the thoughts of a creature in another reality? Who cares. Reality got fragmented in some sort of weird experiment being conducted? Who cares. I don't believe it is the case, but neither do I confidently believe it is not the case. I'm a weak atheist regarding such a potential "God".
I made a thread here to try and drive this point home to theists and got no responses. Theists don't know what "God" means because they apply the term so liberally. It's an elastic word.
Posts: 33713
Threads: 1422
Joined: March 15, 2013
Reputation:
152
RE: Can you persuade me from Agnostic to Atheist?
May 20, 2016 at 2:42 am
Agnosticism makes this false claim to knowledge.
Oh, we're agnostic, we have knowledge.
Knowledge of what, exactly? How to be knowledgeable in pretending to have any claim to knowledge?
Agnosticism, at best, is just fence sitting. Fuck that, since it involves no knowledge whatsoever.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
154
RE: Can you persuade me from Agnostic to Atheist?
May 20, 2016 at 2:45 am
(This post was last modified: May 20, 2016 at 2:47 am by robvalue.)
It can be a statement that something is unknowable, too.
It can be an admission of the limits of knowledge; I agree that it's a little redundant in this case. Any sensible person already notes the limits of knowledge.
I prefer ignostic, since the theist never gets as far as defining what a god is in any coherent fashion. I don't understand the question, so I can't answer. I can be reasonably confident they are flailing around trying to make something in their imagination sound plausible, though.
Posts: 18510
Threads: 129
Joined: January 19, 2014
Reputation:
90
RE: Can you persuade me from Agnostic to Atheist?
May 20, 2016 at 2:45 am
(May 19, 2016 at 6:38 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (May 19, 2016 at 6:20 pm)Alex K Wrote: How could you possibly know that with any degreeof cdrtainty?
Is that what cdesign proponentsists do?
Yes. It's sometimes called "other ways of knoking shit upwing"
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
Posts: 33713
Threads: 1422
Joined: March 15, 2013
Reputation:
152
RE: Can you persuade me from Agnostic to Atheist?
May 20, 2016 at 2:48 am
You're losing it, Rob.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
Posts: 67630
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: Can you persuade me from Agnostic to Atheist?
May 20, 2016 at 2:51 am
(This post was last modified: May 20, 2016 at 2:55 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 20, 2016 at 2:45 am)robvalue Wrote: It can be a statement that something is unknowable, too. Which is a -hefty- claim to knowledge regarding the subject. How would you go about establishing that any given "x" were unknowable...rather than simply unknown to you, for example?
LOL< Not looking for debate, just something to chew on.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
154
RE: Can you persuade me from Agnostic to Atheist?
May 20, 2016 at 2:57 am
(This post was last modified: May 20, 2016 at 2:59 am by robvalue.)
I'm not saying that a specific agnostic has demonstrated it is unknowable, just that they may think that it is. I'm just stating what the term can refer to.
Like I said, I don't even know what it is I'm assessing, personally. I'm still waiting for something coherent, and it doesn't arrive.
Posts: 67630
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: Can you persuade me from Agnostic to Atheist?
May 20, 2016 at 3:00 am
I understand, just trying to highlight a bind an agnostic might easily box themselves into. "I don't know, but I know it's unknowable".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 33713
Threads: 1422
Joined: March 15, 2013
Reputation:
152
RE: Can you persuade me from Agnostic to Atheist?
May 20, 2016 at 3:01 am
It's perfectly knowable, silly.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
Posts: 67630
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: Can you persuade me from Agnostic to Atheist?
May 20, 2016 at 3:06 am
There's a similar bind for what we might call an ignostic atheist. "I don't know what we're talking about, but I don't believe in it"
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
|
