Looks As If Turkey Is Going Down The Shitter, Too

[Minimalist]

I pretty much despise all religions.  Anti-theist seems to capture my general outlook.  Anyone who uses the fantasy of an invisible sky-daddy as an excuse to do or not do anything is a putz as far as I am concerned.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm definitely anti-religion.

Anti-theist? Depends on whether or not the theist in question is a schmuck or not.

[vorlon13]

Damn, not sure we need another third world islamic shithole.

Maybe they could go Rastafarian instead and smoke the ganja all day ??

[Regina]

Madog, the relevance is that Islamophobics brushes all Muslims with the tar of the extremists.

The difference between Christianity and Islam is not particularly in deity, somewhat in doctrine, but mostly in the fact that Christianity has been defanged, while Islam hasn't. An Islamophobe who bases his feelings on scripture should rightly display the same bigotry against Christianity. An Islamophobe who bases his criticisms on actions should rightlly base his feelings on the actions of a small minority of Muslims.

As a very liberal person all my life I am horrified that we don't stand up for liberal Muslims.

I Talk about how wrong homophobia, sexism, etc, etc, is in the world, but some want to exclude Islam from the discussion, we are letting our fellow man down .....

The problems with Islam are the same as nearly every other religion, terrorism is a tiny part .... Why should a gay, female, etc, etc Muslim suffer from silence of the liberals when Islam is decades/centuries behind a lot of western religions?

Its as if liberalism has gone mad .... Protecting the theocracy and not the victims, which are by and large Muslims 

This is the issue I have and I think this post hits the nail on the head

The regressive Left, a lot of times, do inadvertently paint Muslims with a broad brush too with this "oppressed, offended Muslim" narrative, and it comes off hypocritical as they're chastising the Right for doing it. It ignores the French Muslims who were shouting "Je Suis Charlie" alongside everyone else (and getting threatened for it), and it ignores the Iranian woman taking un-veiled selfies on Facebook (and getting threatened for it).

It's not that it's wrong to talk about "not all Muslims do x, y and z", the frustration I have is that people only seem to bring out that argument when it's against Westerners. Nobody ever seems to defend this dissent and diversity among Muslims in response to Wahhabism or other forms of hardline Islamism. I wish we could tell Saudi Arabia and Iran that their theocracy isn't favoured by all Muslims, we don't do that though, in fact we allow them to build mosques and schools in our societies which promote radicalism... and so in ignoring/defending Islamism it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Political-Islamism probably wouldn't be anywhere near as big a problem today, at least in The West, had the Western Left and liberals put their foot down and stood by secular values back in the 70s and 80s before the movement really took hold. The situation now though, we have a pseudo-liberal left who can't hear a criticism of the ideology of Islam without seeing it as bigotry against Muslims, and the far-Right are the ones leading the criticism against Islamic Law but actually are doing it in a very discriminatory and unfair way.

[madog]

I feel like the regressive Left, a lot of times, do inadvertently paint Muslims with a broad brush too with this "oppressed, offended Muslim" narrative, 

Yes I think you are right ... its about time that liberals took back ownership of protecting minorities, which include minorities within Islam ... these minorities have virtually no one talking for them within the Muslim community, or even those that claim to be liberal.

I can understand liberals attacking right wing attacks on Muslims, but these new pseudo liberals that are trying to outdo each other to be the most Liberal now attack anyone that questions Islam teachings and even Muslims and ex-Muslims that criticize anything about Islam.

How anyone can consider themselves a Liberal by attacking those that expose a theocracy at the expense of the minorities oppressed by that theocracy is beyond me 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Damn, not sure we need another third world islamic shithole.

Maybe they could go Rastafarian instead and smoke the ganja all day ??

Look out, bud ... they'll be taking your Ruffles and onion dip hostage.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Political-Islamism probably wouldn't be anywhere near as big a problem today, at least in The West, had the Western Left and liberals put their foot down and stood by secular values back in the 70s and 80s before the movement really took hold.

Well-spoken, and bears reposting.

The situation now though, we have a pseudo-liberal left who can't hear a criticism of the ideology of Islam without seeing it as bigotry against Muslims, and the far-Right are the ones leading the criticism against Islamic Law but actually are doing it in a very discriminatory and unfair way.

I think that on the far-eft side, you have PC-run-amok driving the sentiment -- and also understanding the political value of calling one's opponent a "bigot" insofar as rallying the base is concerned. And on the far-right, the discrimination is, let's be honest, a natural tendency for people who feel under siege, rightly or wrongly.

I have no problem with assholes like ISIS or AQ being granted their wishes to meet Allah, and the sooner the better. But I hate the thought of injustice being done in my name and underwritten by my tax dollars.

Unfortunately, the voting polity, at least here in America, seems to only understand lowest-common-denominator, binary thinking.

[madog]

Political-Islamism probably wouldn't be anywhere near as big a problem today, at least in The West, had the Western Left and liberals put their foot down and stood by secular values back in the 70s and 80s before the movement really took hold.

Well-spoken, and bears reposting.

I agree, very good insight

[Minimalist]

Political-Islamism probably wouldn't be anywhere near as big a problem today, at least in The West, had the Western Left and liberals put their foot down and stood by secular values back in the 70s and 80s before the movement really took hold.

You mean like when the Western Right tried to prop up the shah of Iran?  Or when the Western Right tried to fight the Russians in Afghanistan by arming the mujahadin?

[WinterHold]