Leaving christianity, a bit of my story

[robvalue]

Let me guess...

No True Christian™ would ever stop being a Christian.

[Lucifer]

Before I answer, let me ask you: according to you, how does one know that one is a Christian?

  I'm not playing your game, I asked an honest question and would like a honest answer.

GC

Well, alright, you can get one, but please don't disappoint my trust. Here are some of the reasons that I was a Christian:

1. I repented from my sins, very often, very sincerely.
2. I did my best to live a good life, to get rid of my sins and live according to gods will.
3. I actually believed in Jesus and that he had died for me sins, and I have accepted that.
4. I was baptized when I was 12, this was a very sincere choice at the time.
5. I dedicated my life to living for God, often requiring personal sacrifices. I was not ashamed of the gospel and spread it actively and I gave away my time and my money for his purpose.

I could give more, but I think this is enough for now.

[Drich]

  I'm not playing your game, I asked an honest question and would like a honest answer.

GC

Well, alright, you can get one, but please don't disappoint my trust. Here are some of the reasons that I was a Christian:

1. I repented from my sins, very often, very sincerely.
2. I did my best to live a good life, to get rid of my sins and live according to gods will.
3. I actually believed in Jesus and that he had died for me sins, and I have accepted that.
4. I was baptized when I was 12, this was a very sincere choice at the time.
5. I dedicated my life to living for God, often requiring personal sacrifices. I was not ashamed of the gospel and spread it actively and I gave away my time and my money for his purpose.

I could give more, but I think this is enough for now.

I don't want to poop on GC's line of questioning or steal his thunder, but I see.. A lot of "I's" in your account of what made you Christian..

No wonder your faith faultered when ever you stopped applying yourself.

Let me ask you.. Did you ever once ask God for proof or some sign/wonder to let you know He was really there?

Have you considered that your lost faith is an answer to that prayer?

As a 'christian' I'm sure you have heard of the wise and foolish builders. What if.. The "house" you built was your faith your religion/religious beliefs, and your prayer for 'proof' was actually a prayer for God to send the wind and the rain to test the house you built.

Undoubtedly your house collapsed as you did not build on a proper 'foundation.' Your 'foundation of "I's" failed and so your faith came down around you. Giving you an opportunity to rebuild.

In short no matter how well meaning your intentions were in your childhood efforts God (as in the God of the bible and not your religion/version of Christianity) could not directly support your view of him thus removing any foundation to your system of belief. So when properly tested your faith failed. just like the man who built his house on the sand. Giving you the opportunity to rebuild on the rock.

Can you imagine how strong your faith would be if you absolutly knew God was real and had your back? That is a faith or belief built on the rock. Which is possible, but you have to do and learn to see things God's way, and not your own/filter it through religion.

Just something to think about...

[SteveII]

If someone says they are a Christian, then they're a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they have the authority to tell people otherwise is way above their station.

Anyone's own opinion on exactly what Christianity should be is a drop in the ocean of ideas.

Somewhat ironic that I'm prepared to stick up for people's religious status more than some religious people are for each other.

Actually, that is not true. I'm not saying that Lucifer was not a Christian (it seems he was), but being a Christian has a very specific definition and if you do not meet that definition, your self-identification is simply wrong. Many self-described Christians mean they believe in God and some amount of the NT as true. That description would apply to every angel (fallen or not) --even Satan.

[Lucifer]

Well, alright, you can get one, but please don't disappoint my trust. Here are some of the reasons that I was a Christian:

1. I repented from my sins, very often, very sincerely.
2. I did my best to live a good life, to get rid of my sins and live according to gods will.
3. I actually believed in Jesus and that he had died for me sins, and I have accepted that.
4. I was baptized when I was 12, this was a very sincere choice at the time.
5. I dedicated my life to living for God, often requiring personal sacrifices. I was not ashamed of the gospel and spread it actively and I gave away my time and my money for his purpose.

I could give more, but I think this is enough for now.

I don't want to poop on GC's line of questioning or steal his thunder, but I see.. A lot of "I's" in your account of what made you Christian..

No wonder your faith faultered when ever you stopped applying yourself.

Let me ask you.. Did you ever once ask God for proof or some sign/wonder to let you know He was really there?

Have you considered that your lost faith is an answer to that prayer?

As a 'christian' I'm sure you have heard of the wise and foolish builders. What if.. The "house" you built was your faith your religion/religious beliefs, and your prayer for 'proof' was actually a prayer for God to send the wind and the rain to test the house you built.

Undoubtedly your house collapsed as you did not build on a proper 'foundation.' Your 'foundation of "I's" failed and so your faith came down around you. Giving you an opportunity to rebuild.

In short no matter how well meaning your intentions were in your childhood efforts God (as in the God of the bible and not your religion/version of Christianity) could not directly support your view of him thus removing any foundation to your system of belief. So when properly tested your faith failed. just like the man who built his house on the sand. Giving you the opportunity to rebuild on the rock.

Can you imagine how strong your faith would be if you absolutly knew God was real and had your back? That is a faith or belief built on the rock. Which is possible, but you have to do and learn to see things God's way, and not your own/filter it through religion.

Just something to think about...

Wow you base all that analysis of my personality and my faith because I wrote one post in the first person? I can't take you serious. This is why I don't like answering this question, you can always expect to get replies like this one.

---

If someone says they are a Christian, then they're a Christian.

Anyone who thinks they have the authority to tell people otherwise is way above their station.

Anyone's own opinion on exactly what Christianity should be is a drop in the ocean of ideas.

Somewhat ironic that I'm prepared to stick up for people's religious status more than some religious people are for each other.

Actually, that is not true. I'm not saying that Lucifer was not a Christian (it seems he was), but being a Christian has a very specific definition and if you do not meet that definition, your self-identification is simply wrong. Many self-described Christians mean they believe in God and some amount of the NT as true. That description would apply to every angel (fallen or not) --even Satan.

Thanks for taking me serious and believing me when I say I was a Christian. That is very rare, I really appreciate that.

Just to be clear (I think you did get that): I did not just believe in God and the bible, I also dedicated my life to God, repenting of my sins and everything, like I wrote. I did go to great lengths to follow Jesus. Because of having this priority, I made sacrifices in my career and personal life that I now regret making, because I feel like it was a big lie and a waste of time, and I feel betrayed because of that. This is why I become very angry when someone (especially someone who does not know me at all) dares to tell me that I was not really a christian. It is arrogant and very disrespectful. Not very loving and Jesus-like.

So thanks again for not doing that.

[Lucifer]

When I left christianity, I expected to enter this big "secular world", which should mean a lot of freedom, rationality, humanism and so forth........ Religion really limited in what I could be, it held me down, but now that I am free and able to think and act sensibly I have the opportunity to build an awesome, exciting and meaningful life with everything I could dream of.

There is no loss of freedom in christianity.  We're free to accept or reject it and to leave it any time.  You exercised your freedom when you left the faith.  I accept Christ freely and I'm also freed from daily fears that so many people live with.

Good to hear that you are christianity makes you happy, that is what counts. It did not make me happy.

I do think that christianity helps with freeing you from some daily fears, like the fear of death (the idea that life continues after death for you and your loved ones can be very comforting), fear of being alone (God always being with you can feel good) and fear of judgement (the idea that God forgives you even though you make mistakes can also be nice), etc.

However, without evidence, I think this is just wishful thinking. To illustrate, let's say one who is afraid to become poor believes that he will win 10 million dollars in the lottery. This could help this person to feel more relaxed, but it is very improbable. This person would be better off for accepting that poverty could happen to anyone, and that he himself has the power to reduce the chances of this happening by spending his money well, developing his career, etc.

When I left christianity, I did have to deal with a lot of these fears, but I can tell you now from my experience that it is possible. It was tough to accept the sometimes harsh reality, and sometimes it still is, but it also feels good to face these issues head-on, grounded in reality. When someone dies I have to mourn them to deal with the pain (but I can also celebrate their life, and appreciate the time that I have had with them), when I am alone I can connect to the people around me and when I fear judgement, I can also accept that I screw up sometimes, ask for forgiveness if needed and accept the responsibility for my own life.

[SteveII]

---

Actually, that is not true. I'm not saying that Lucifer was not a Christian (it seems he was), but being a Christian has a very specific definition and if you do not meet that definition, your self-identification is simply wrong. Many self-described Christians mean they believe in God and some amount of the NT as true. That description would apply to every angel (fallen or not) --even Satan.

Thanks for taking me serious and believing me when I say I was a Christian. That is very rare, I really appreciate that.

Just to be clear (I think you did get that): I did not just believe in God and the bible, I also dedicated my life to God, repenting of my sins and everything, like I wrote. I did go to great lengths to follow Jesus. Because of having this priority, I made sacrifices in my career and personal life that I now regret making, because I feel like it was a big lie and a waste of time, and I feel betrayed because of that. This is why I become very angry when someone (especially someone who does not know me at all) dares to tell me that I was not really a christian. It is arrogant and very disrespectful. Not very loving and Jesus-like.

So thanks again for not doing that.

What part about Christianity did you find irrational (you said rationality won out in your OP)?

[Drich]

I don't want to poop on GC's line of questioning or steal his thunder, but I see.. A lot of "I's" in your account of what made you Christian..

No wonder your faith faultered when ever you stopped applying yourself.

Let me ask you.. Did you ever once ask God for proof or some sign/wonder to let you know He was really there?

Have you considered that your lost faith is an answer to that prayer?

As a 'christian' I'm sure you have heard of the wise and foolish builders. What if.. The "house" you built was your faith your religion/religious beliefs, and your prayer for 'proof' was actually a prayer for God to send the wind and the rain to test the house you built.

Undoubtedly your house collapsed as you did not build on a proper 'foundation.' Your 'foundation of "I's" failed and so your faith came down around you. Giving you an opportunity to rebuild.

In short no matter how well meaning your intentions were in your childhood efforts God (as in the God of the bible and not your religion/version of Christianity) could not directly support your view of him thus removing any foundation to your system of belief. So when properly tested your faith failed. just like the man who built his house on the sand. Giving you the opportunity to rebuild on the rock.

Can you imagine how strong your faith would be if you absolutly knew God was real and had your back? That is a faith or belief built on the rock. Which is possible, but you have to do and learn to see things God's way, and not your own/filter it through religion.

Just something to think about...

Wow you base all that analysis of my personality and my faith because I wrote one post in the first person? I can't take you serious. This is why I don't like answering this question, you can always expect to get replies like this one.

---

If this were true then why did you offer to answer any questions in the OP?

And.. it was two posts actually. Which is more than enough.

the first post described a religious experience totally devoid of God. the second described the what made you apart of the religion. Again it was totally devoid of God working with or through you. Meaning you never experienced God in a real way. (it's not something you forget to mention)

If God is not apart of your religious experience/life in a very real way then your faith will faulter and fail when tested. As it is only you and your will that keeps you apart of the religion.

However If and when God stepped up or into your life, then the tests become easier as you and what you know to be true is not being challenged alone.

...But again what do i know, Despite kinda already walked down that path, and never mind talking to people just like you for 9+ years.. Keep telling yourself you are a snow flake, (no two are a like) and an enigma all rolled up into one who @ your age has the whole world figured out, but no one or nothing in the world could possibly understand the complexities that is your specific life...

You will fit right into the snow bank you just flurried into. welcome to AF!

[purplepurpose]

Believers are noble people who try to sacrifice their life. Ideally they preach and work only, pleasure is a taboo(mostly).

This is a miserable life or painful instead of pleasant atheistic lifestyle and thats why its noble. I cannot argue with the value of such idealistic life. Superman and batman are both idealists(fictional). Everybody loves them. Jesus done very noble things in his life too.

But the fun ends when trough blackmail(idea of hell from believers) people are being mindraped in to faith. Thats sad. And even sad what I was told by a friend "God loves you. Thats why you will burn in hell".

If atheists before meeting religion were sad about death. After meeting religion they will be content with it. LoL.

[Lucifer]

Wow you base all that analysis of my personality and my faith because I wrote one post in the first person? I can't take you serious. This is why I don't like answering this question, you can always expect to get replies like this one.

---

If this were true then why did you offer to answer any questions in the OP?

And.. it was two posts actually. Which is more than enough.

the first post described a religious experience totally devoid of God. the second described the what made you apart of the religion. Again it was totally devoid of God working with or through you. Meaning you never experienced God in a real way. (it's not something you forget to mention)

If God is not apart of your religious experience/life in a very real way then your faith will faulter and fail when tested. As it is only you and your will that keeps you apart of the religion.

However If and when God stepped up or into your life, then the tests become easier as you and what you know to be true is not being challenged alone.

...But again what do i know, Despite kinda already walked down that path, and never mind talking to people just like you for 9+ years.. Keep telling yourself you are a snow flake, (no two are a like) and an enigma all rolled up into one who @ your age has the whole world figured out, but no one or nothing in the world could possibly understand the complexities that is your specific life...

You will fit right into the snow bank you just flurried into. welcome to AF!

A lot judgement and insults. Jesus would be ashamed of you. And it's funny how you know these things... don't you realize that I can check whether everything you're saying about me is true? I can tell you that your assessment of my christian life is totally wrong, your oh so enormous life experience didn't help you there.

If I don't agree with someone, I still would like to understand their point of view. Insulting people and making quick judgements does not help. I don't like to waste my time talking with people who don't have those basic social skills.

---

---

Thanks for taking me serious and believing me when I say I was a Christian. That is very rare, I really appreciate that.

Just to be clear (I think you did get that): I did not just believe in God and the bible, I also dedicated my life to God, repenting of my sins and everything, like I wrote. I did go to great lengths to follow Jesus. Because of having this priority, I made sacrifices in my career and personal life that I now regret making, because I feel like it was a big lie and a waste of time, and I feel betrayed because of that. This is why I become very angry when someone (especially someone who does not know me at all) dares to tell me that I was not really a christian. It is arrogant and very disrespectful. Not very loving and Jesus-like.

So thanks again for not doing that.

What part about Christianity did you find irrational (you said rationality won out in your OP)?

That is an excellent question. Let me try to answer that for you:

1. The origin story of the bible does not fit with science, and interpreting genesis 1 and 2 in a non-literal way has many problems of it's own, like the origin of sin (which is kind of a big one ).
2. Christianity makes a lot of big claims about reality, like the existence of a God, angels, demons, heaven, hell, etc. I don't accept the existence of ghosts, faeries and dragons by faith, so it is consistent not to this for christianity as well. The requirement for evidence, thus, is very obvious to me, and it is completely absent.
3. The morals taught in the bible are very mixed. Sure, there is some good stuff in it, but a lot of very dark things as well (like killing disobedient children).
4. There are a lot of contradictions in the bible, which take a lot of apologetics to (attempt to) explain away. I would imagine an all-powerful God to be able to write a better book.
5. I have seen a lot of people claiming to be christians, and a lot of them, if pressed, admitted that they doubted and did not have firm reasons to believe, even those who claimed to experience God regularly. Almost all of those people have been raised as christians, so it was logical to assume that they, like me, were just giving christianity the benefit of the doubt.

I could give more reasons if you like.

---

Believers are noble people who try to sacrifice their life. Ideally they preach and work only, pleasure is a taboo(mostly).

This is a miserable life or painful instead of pleasant atheistic lifestyle and thats why its noble. I cannot argue with the value of such idealistic life. Superman and batman are both idealists(fictional). Everybody loves them. Jesus done very noble things in his life too.

But the fun ends when trough blackmail(idea of hell from believers) people are being mindraped in to faith. Thats sad. And even sad what I was told by a friend "God loves you. Thats why you will burn in hell".

If atheists before meeting religion were sad about death. After meeting religion they will be content with it. LoL.

It is sad that a friend told you that. It shows that people really don't understand justice. I mean, I would not even wish the most evil person to burn in hell for eternity. Sure, they deserve some punishment, but punishing someone for eternity is just evil. Why isn't this obvious to people?

I don't think the life for an atheist has to be a pleasant one, it can also involve some sacrifice for a higher goal. Personally, I want to do a lot of good in this world, and I am willing to accept discomfort in order to do that. For example, I am volunteering to go to disaster areas, to use my professional expertise to save lives. This means witnessing tough things and making long days.