Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 1:47 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism
#11
RE: Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism
(July 11, 2016 at 5:32 pm)Lucifer Wrote: Would you care to elaborate? Why do you think this? I am interested in hearing your reasoning.

Nothing to add to what Faith already said.
[Image: Bumper+Sticker+-+Asheville+-+Praise+Dog3.JPG]
Reply
#12
RE: Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism
I'm only familiar with what I've heard about it, and it both does make sense and it doesn't. It just depends how you look at it.

The more intelligent you are, no matter how selfish you can be, you'll still help others, because that is in your own self-interest. The dumber you are though, you can be a saint, you'll probably do more harm than good and not even know it. That's how I think the world works.

Would I take the chance to fuck everyone else over if it really meant I could live the best possible life? Of course I would, as would anyone else if they're not complete morons and honest with themselves(or, to put it differently, if they understand the proposition well enough and have the same drives and configuration as everyone else). But that makes zero sense in the current world.

First of all, it takes a lot to be a successful "predator"(if you will). You have to be naturally likeable or deviously smart, or both, lack a conscience while being perfectly able to simulate one, and have an incredible amount of motivation. Most people lack at least one of those qualities.


ahh, fuck it, I feel like I'm giving away too much. Let me rephrase:

Fuck Ayn Rand and her philosophy. 



Notice: the author of this post does not condone or approve of anything being said in this post.
Reply
#13
RE: Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism
(July 11, 2016 at 6:04 pm)Lucifer Wrote: Interesting to read that so many of you don't agree with her. To be clear, I have not yet made up my mind yet, just saying that it is interesting. I don't accept any philosophies 100%, I just use them to sharpen my thinking and my ethics. I have a strong tendency for altruism, and perhaps I like her philosophy, because it challenges my assumptions and helps me find out why I do what I do.

I read quite a bit of her nonfiction in my college days, and at the time I found it appealing. Her ideas about personal responsibility were influential, but her economic ideals showed themselves unrealistic to my mind.

Reply
#14
RE: Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism
(July 11, 2016 at 6:06 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: The more intelligent you are, no matter how selfish you can be, you'll still help others, because that is in your own self-interest. The dumber you are though, you can be a saint, you'll probably do more harm than good and not even know it. That's how I think the world works.

That's not how she saw it. She talked about moochers, not about intelligence. People sitting back and taking it from the makers. And nevermind the fact that in her late years she herself became a moocher living off social security. Because she simply couldn't afford her cancer treatment anymore. Splendid example of hypocrisy. She couldn't even live up to her own standards.
[Image: Bumper+Sticker+-+Asheville+-+Praise+Dog3.JPG]
Reply
#15
RE: Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism
(July 11, 2016 at 6:10 pm)abaris Wrote:
(July 11, 2016 at 6:06 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: The more intelligent you are, no matter how selfish you can be, you'll still help others, because that is in your own self-interest. The dumber you are though, you can be a saint, you'll probably do more harm than good and not even know it. That's how I think the world works.

That's not how she saw it. She talked about moochers, not about intelligence. People sitting back and taking it from the makers. And nevermind the fact that in her late years she herself became a moocher living off social security. Because she simply couldn't afford her cancer treatment anymore. Splendid example of hypocrisy. She couldn't even live up to her own standards.

Again, I have no clue what she was all about, I only know the caricature of her views. From your description though, she doesn't sound all that good.
Reply
#16
RE: Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism
I think I should add here, in case it wasn't clear enough, that those of us that have consciences, can't accept any situation at any given moment where you fuck over innocent people for your own gains. That's contradictory in itself, since if you care for other people(even other than your own family and friends) your happiness would depend on the happiness of others. I think of conscience like a built-in fear sometimes, and the rebel in me dissaproves, but I do have it and am very much driven by it, except for the times where I feel cheated and taken advantage of, then my sympathy and goodwill quickly turn to vindictiviness and hatred, but even that only happens if I'm taken by surprise and can't make sense of the other person(s) own circumstances and what got them to this point. So there's definitely a battle between instinct and rationality at play here.
Reply
#17
RE: Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism
(July 11, 2016 at 6:05 pm)abaris Wrote:
(July 11, 2016 at 5:59 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Poca, we actually do have government oversight.

In theory. Like in every other country. But when money calls, politicians tend to answer. Still a little bit more in America with it's institutionalised bribery than in other countries. But we're getting there quickly.

The SEC, monopoly law, etc, aren't just theoretical. They are applied, albeit imperfectly.

Reply
#18
RE: Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism
(July 11, 2016 at 5:59 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Poca, we actually do have government oversight.

aye....
It works, on some levels.... doesn't on other levels...
Like in many places, I guess.
Lobbying and corruption (aren't those two the same thing?) do tend to skew the effects...

It's just that this philosophy does seem to have much more of an expression in the US, then elsewhere.... but it's worming its way onto other places...
I wonder if it will succeed as much in Europe, or if it will be squashed like the parasitic philosophy that it is. Time will tell...
Reply
#19
RE: Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism
(July 11, 2016 at 5:22 pm)Lucifer Wrote: I recently discoved Ayn Rand and learned about her philosphical views. I found it extremely interesting. The idea that "altruism is immoral" completel goes against all my previous ideas and intuitions, and therefore is quite an uncomfortable idea to entertain, but when I pushed through and read more about what she meant by it, it makes a lot of sense to me. To put it in my own words, she argues that people should not sacrifice themselves for other people if it does not fit with their own needs, because it is equal to suicide. If you help someone, do it because you have a need to do so, not because you think you should do that because you want to be a good person. You are responsible for your own life, and your own happiness. This sounds very healthy to me. I want people around me to live like this, I want my loved ones taking good care of themselves. Most people also have a need to take care of the people around them and to connect with them,  so I don't think that this philosophy leads to people to live self centred lives. It is very counter-intuitive, but it makes sense to me.

What do you think? Do I describe her philosophy well? Is there a flaw in this reasoning? Has this philosophy impacted your ideas as well?

The wolves abuse the social contract: without the sheep, there would be nothing for the wolves to feed on, without the working joe, there would be nobody to sweat on behalf of the ambitious.

Her idea is flawed, I think, in that she sees life as a zero-sum game: if I give you something, I will have less.  But this isn't true: I will have support when my luck goes sour, because I've invested in friendships.  I'll have the support of my community, because I'm a member in good standing.  I'll also have a greater joy-- because I am PART of something bigger than myself, and well-adjusted people have a desire to contribute to a greater good. Also, even in economic terms-- the selfish accumulation of wealth is leading to economic slowdown and a net loss for the American economy; so her views are short-sighted in that sense.

Now, if it is in your nature to be as she describes, then you may accumulate wealth and achieve your dreams.  But whether standing by while your peers suffer is anything less than being a dick, that's up to you to decide.
Reply
#20
RE: Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism
(July 11, 2016 at 5:22 pm)Lucifer Wrote: I recently discoved Ayn Rand and learned about her philosphical views. I found it extremely interesting. The idea that "altruism is immoral" completel goes against all my previous ideas and intuitions, and therefore is quite an uncomfortable idea to entertain, but when I pushed through and read more about what she meant by it, it makes a lot of sense to me. To put it in my own words, she argues that people should not sacrifice themselves for other people if it does not fit with their own needs, because it is equal to suicide. If you help someone, do it because you have a need to do so, not because you think you should do that because you want to be a good person. You are responsible for your own life, and your own happiness. This sounds very healthy to me. I want people around me to live like this, I want my loved ones taking good care of themselves. Most people also have a need to take care of the people around them and to connect with them,  so I don't think that this philosophy leads to people to live self centred lives. It is very counter-intuitive, but it makes sense to me.

What do you think? Do I describe her philosophy well? Is there a flaw in this reasoning? Has this philosophy impacted your ideas as well?


We evolved as a social species, where altruism, kin selection, reciprocity, cooperation were necessary for our survival. This is the main source of our morality.

Her philosophy, as I see it, is borderline sociopathy. 

As I see it, altruism and reciprocity are part of the makeup of psychologically healthy people.

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  How worthless is Philosophy? vulcanlogician 125 4878 February 27, 2024 at 7:57 pm
Last Post: Belacqua
  Philosophy Recommendations Harry Haller 21 1292 January 5, 2024 at 10:58 am
Last Post: HappySkeptic
  The Philosophy Of Stupidity. disobey 51 3345 July 27, 2023 at 3:02 am
Last Post: Carl Hickey
  Hippie philosophy Fake Messiah 19 1531 January 21, 2023 at 1:56 pm
Last Post: Angrboda
  [Serious] Generally speaking, is philosophy a worthwhile subject of study? Disagreeable 238 11796 May 21, 2022 at 10:38 am
Last Post: highdimensionman
  My philosophy about Religion SuicideCommando01 18 2512 April 5, 2020 at 9:52 pm
Last Post: SuicideCommando01
  High level philosophy robvalue 46 4823 November 1, 2018 at 10:44 pm
Last Post: DLJ
  Why I'm here: a Muslim. My Philosophy in life. What is yours;Muslim? WinterHold 43 8148 May 27, 2018 at 12:20 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  The Philosophy of Mind: Zombies, "radical emergence" and evidence of non-experiential Edwardo Piet 82 11542 April 29, 2018 at 1:57 am
Last Post: bennyboy
  Revolution in Philosophy? Jehanne 11 2252 April 4, 2018 at 9:01 am
Last Post: Jehanne



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)