The problem with prayer.

[Esquilax]

Why would you assume the God wants us to have life easy?

While I'll give you credit for an actually pretty well written post, I do have to point out that your entire answer is reliant upon its own, unspoken assumption, which you should probably question too:

Why would you assume god wants us to have this life?

Now, I don't mean that qualitatively, like, why would god desire an easy life or a hard life, but more in terms of, why would god want us to have a life with these specific parameters at all? Your points about challenge and struggle forcing us to aspire to greater things are totally valid in a world where we're alone, or one where god had no choice but to construct a reality for us with mortality, limited resources and so on; in fact in the latter ensuring that such strife could lead to opportunity would be the morally good thing to do.

But that's not the god you're talking about, is it?

Your god has the ability to take away all of the limitations placed, but even assuming the need for hardship pursuant to growth- which is not at all a safe assumption given the christian god's power set and, indeed, his penchant for revelation- he could easily make the consequences of those hardships less... shall we say ruinous, random, and cruelly inflicted? Hardship can exist as the foundation for progress without alloying that hardship with the bodies of the dead, after all. Hardship doesn't require the additional pressure of natural disasters we can't possibly fight, nor diseases for which the only progress they can spark is the cure for those diseases.

We can be challenged, and rise to meet those challenges, without the countless dead children robbed of their opportunity to do the same in the name of progress. This is within your god's power set to grant and, according to your theology, more in line with what he actually wants, given that his initial creation had none of those hardships at all, and god was apparently content with that. If you want us to ask why god would want us to have an easy life, it's equally valid to ask why the life we have has been constructed by that god in this way.

And I have a hard time reconciling your answer to the former question with the bible, either, not only because god really did want humans to have an easy life, if you take the Genesis account at all seriously, but also because the hardships you're saying were put in place to foster human growth... weren't? God put them there, pretty unambiguously, to punish man for sin; you've got Wooters over there spouting off about biblical support for your position, but curiously you're both omitting the verses, right at the beginning of the book, where god's like "yo, the reason you have to toil and die now is because you disobeyed me."

Without that, there would have been no hardship at all, so how does your answer fit into that?

[LadyForCamus]

The problem with prayer is it is about as effective as a lone ant trying to procreate by farting in the general direction of a spider.

Dude, I've seen that happen. NO JOKE. [emoji13]

[Cyberman]

I, on the other hand, have never met the cunt. But if I ever had the displeasure of meeting him I'd twat the bastard.

 You will at judgment and you will be on your knees confessing that Christ truly is Savior and Lord.

GC

[popsthebuilder]

Let me back up.

I cannot limit or justifiably claim to be able to know the full and utter reasoning of a thing that is wholly superiour to me (GOD).

1)It was my vain reasoning that insisted that GOD would have to have accidentally allowed the decapitation of a person in order to have a reason to reapply their head miraculously in front of witnesses.
2) GOD makes no mistakes. Man, however, regardless of religion or lack there of, has made an exceedingly large amount.
3)everything happens for a reason. I can't claim to know all of those reasons, even within my own life, at times.




Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

[Minimalist]

How do you know all this?

 Because I know God and if you were to study the scriptures you might find some of these answers too.

GC

Then again, you'd probably just be wasting your time reading a shitpile of primitive fairy tales.

[Angrboda]

If God is omniscient, then he knows in advance all the prayers I will make, and all the prayers that I won't make. This is all a part of God's plan for me. How will my praying bring me closer to God if that is not a part of his plan? Just as prayers petitioning for things can't alter what he has already foreordained, neither will my praying affect his plan for me. You can't escape the inexorableness of God's plan by focusing on God's plan for me. Both are a form of petition to change God's plan. Either God's plan for my prayer life is set or it isn't. Either God's plan is inviolate or it isn't, including his plans for me. It seems silly that after a life doing nothing other than what has been ordained for me, I am then supposed to be judged on what God already knew before I was born. It seems rather callous and petty for God to judge me when I really couldn't have done other than what he had planned. Either way, you can't escape the paradox that extra prayer to bring me closer to God has been ruled out by his omniscience.

Omniscience and an inviolate plan don't mix very well.

[vorlon13]

Not a given, but assuming a god exists, and he/she is amenable to prayers, what assurance do we have that god would bother to hear (let alone be favorably disposed by) a prayer from an individual that is a member of any faith other than His/Her True one ??

(16 page thread, sorry I'm not going back and see if anyone else, or, LOL me, has already made that point)

[Minimalist]

[ignoramus]

Good point Vorls.
Maybe God exists but no one has accurately described him.
He therefore doesn't want to intrude on our God.
He keeps away. Cannot answer prayers.
Prime directive and all.

[popsthebuilder]

If God is omniscient, then he knows in advance all the prayers I will make, and all the prayers that I won't make. This is all a part of God's plan for me. How will my praying bring me closer to God if that is not a part of his plan? Just as prayers petitioning for things can't alter what he has already foreordained, neither will my praying affect his plan for me. You can't escape the inexorableness of God's plan by focusing on God's plan for me. Both are a form of petition to change God's plan. Either God's plan for my prayer life is set or it isn't. Either God's plan is inviolate or it isn't, including his plans for me. It seems silly that after a life doing nothing other than what has been ordained for me, I am then supposed to be judged on what God already knew before I was born. It seems rather callous and petty for God to judge me when I really couldn't have done other than what he had planned. Either way, you can't escape the paradox that extra prayer to bring me closer to God has been ruled out by his omniscience.

Omniscience and an inviolate plan don't mix very well.

Omniscience in no way removes a variable allowed by that omniscience.

Also; just because the will of GOD doesn't change, doesn't mean that in IT's omnipotence, it doesn't allow for us to change or be free from any binding.

Just because the ultimate will of GOD is ordained by GOD, doesn't mean IT can't allow for change in any way. Technically, it is feasible to claim that literally all is ordained yet infinite variables are within this equation that ultimately has a singular answer or result. It is feasible to say that every action in a persons life at all times is both preordained and yet freely theirs to make. Every action could result in an infinite amount of other outcomes. Every step you take can change your destiny, yet that will have been your destiny from before time still. But that is from your perspective and doesn't mean GOD didn't know it or ordain it. In other words; it is not outside the will or power or knowledge of GOD to allow us learn things through experience. Just because GOD knows our will, that doesn't mean we can't change it.

If we knew our destiny, then it would make prayer of little necessity. GOD knowing it, does not.

Sorry, it's probably hard to follow, but we are talking about multiple infinities.
Kinda hard for me to describe.

Peace



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.