To those who believe Bible is not literal...

[fr0d0]

okay lets talk about facts: - I see no facts anna

-Christians killed, tortured and burnt people becouse they think bible was literal. - no people who were Christians do non Christian things sometimes

-God Sent or inspired people to write bible illiteral. - The bible is a book on the subject of religion and not science

-God could simply talk to the whole world. He doesn't even need to "inspire" someone so it wasn't the only way to communicate. - he couldn't, as that would be illogical

-If you send something that much important, and want people to obey your words it would be a wise thing to send it more clear. - but you can't because it would be illogical

My conclusion: God is a sick bastard who caused thousands of people die just to send something poetic. - with absolutely zero reason

Your conclusion: You are illogical. - You are not illogical, some of your points are.

"Your logic seemingly enables you to conclude stuff without proof."
You don't need a proof to refute something that is produced without proof. - You don't need it because it's impossible. That's why you can't logically conclude anything.

[annatar]

okay lets talk about facts: - I see no facts anna
No you don't want to see. It's different.
-Christians killed, tortured and burnt people becouse they think bible was literal. - no people who were Christians do non Christian things sometimes
You know your arguments are pretty lame right?
People did 'non Christian' things becouse they thought it was what god commands them to do.
Let me ask you this then, What conclusion you would draw if you had accepted bible's words literally?

-God Sent or inspired people to write bible illiteral. - The bible is a book on the subject of religion and not science
I never said it was science. But not just scientific books are literal or obvious..

-God could simply talk to the whole world. He doesn't even need to "inspire" someone so it wasn't the only way to communicate. - he couldn't, as that would be illogical
Why do you think it would be illogical? We are not playing a game if you think there are rules. And you believe he is omnipotent right? He can do whatever he want.( And he Chose this one???!)
-If you send something that much important, and want people to obey your words it would be a wise thing to send it more clear. - but you can't because it would be illogical
Its perfectly logical to me.
lets say I am a boss,
I want my employes to produce pen. But I am telling only to one of my employe: "make me something mightier than sword ". So they are producing Shotguns. Is it my fault or theirs???
My conclusion: God is a sick bastard who caused thousands of people die just to send something poetic. - with absolutely zero reason
Reason is something you are not familiar I believe...

Your conclusion: You are illogical. - You are not illogical, some of your points are.
After this discussion Im not even sure that you know what logic is..
"Your logic seemingly enables you to conclude stuff without proof."
You don't need a proof to refute something that is produced without proof. - You don't need it because it's impossible. That's why you can't logically conclude anything.
its not impossible It's simple. Here, the simple and logical conclusion of this thread: Bible is not literal = Bullshit.

[everythingafter]

Fourth, what will happen to people (like me) who would get the wrong message?

If you are completely innocent you will be judged as such.

The question was on the assumption that she's not innocent because she got the wrong message or doesn't believe or believes the wrong thing. And, if doctrine is true and someone doesn't believe or believes wrongly, there is no exit because of original sin.
[/quote]
Well I don't know of anyone completely innocent ev.
[/quote]

Based on the Christian view, there is no one completely innocent unless a person is saved through Christ. That was my point. And even then, believers talk an awful lot about repentance and asking forgiveness for things they've done and thought. I just wasn't sure what was being suggested by the above answer.

[fr0d0]

-Christians killed, tortured and burnt people becouse they think bible was literal. - no people who were Christians do non Christian things sometimes
You know your arguments are pretty lame right?
People did 'non Christian' things becouse they thought it was what god commands them to do.
Let me ask you this then, What conclusion you would draw if you had accepted bible's words literally?

If they understood wrong they're still wrong. If I read out of context that the bible condones taking an eye for an eye, then I would be doing something against what Christ would have done. Do you understand?

-God could simply talk to the whole world. He doesn't even need to "inspire" someone so it wasn't the only way to communicate. - he couldn't, as that would be illogical
Why do you think it would be illogical? We are not playing a game if you think there are rules. And you believe he is omnipotent right? He can do whatever he want.( And he Chose this one???!)

The premise of xtianity is the need for faith. If God provided solid proof there would be no need for faith. Get it?

-If you send something that much important, and want people to obey your words it would be a wise thing to send it more clear. - but you can't because it would be illogical
Its perfectly logical to me.
lets say I am a boss,
I want my employes to produce pencils. But I am telling only to one of my employe: "make me something mightier than sword ". So they are producing Shotguns. Is it my fault or theirs???

The bible isn't so unclear.

My conclusion: God is a sick bastard who caused thousands of people die just to send something poetic. - with absolutely zero reason
Reason is something you are not familiar I believe...

Yet you seem incapable of demonstrating why.

Your conclusion: You are illogical. - You are not illogical, some of your points are.
After this discussion Im not even sure that you know what logic is..

Then try to demonstrate it.

"Your logic seemingly enables you to conclude stuff without proof."
You don't need a proof to refute something that is produced without proof. - You don't need it because it's impossible. That's why you can't logically conclude anything.
its not impossible It's simple. Here, the simple and logical conclusion of this thread: Bible is not literal = Bullshit.

Are you saying that if the bible isn't literal than it's bullshit? Or that the bible is absolutely literal in your opinion? I see zero statements to support your assertion, so am forced to conclude nothing different to what I previously thought, just like any other reader.

[annatar]

If they understood wrong they're still wrong. If I read out of context that the bible condones taking an eye for an eye, then I would be doing something against what Christ would have done.

But it wouldn't be your fault either.

The bible isn't so unclear.

then why so many people believed that bible is literal?
Yes bible is not unclear if you take it literal. But your explainations to the verses of bible.....
Lets just say you're really imaginative...

Are you saying that if the bible isn't literal than it's bullshit? Or that the bible is absolutely literal in your opinion? I see zero statements to support your assertion, so am forced to conclude nothing different to what I previously thought, just like any other reader.

Im saying that your excuses about bible being illiteral is bullshit. Bible itself is also bullshit. bible has no secret divine meaning other than its obvious meanings.

Reason is something you are not familiar I believe...

Yet you seem incapable of demonstrating why.

Actually you seem incapable of noticing them. My conclusion is created under the facts that I clearly mentioned several times.
But I know its a waste of time. You wont see the truth Even if its as clear as a bell..
I am actually waiting the moment that you will say "your posts are not literal.."
Edit:

The premise of xtianity is the need for faith. If God provided solid proof there would be no need for faith. Get it?

oh I missed this one.. You were having problems with recognizing illogicality. That statement pretty much is the definition of illogicality..

[fr0d0]

If they understood wrong they're still wrong. If I read out of context that the bible condones taking an eye for an eye, then I would be doing something against what Christ would have done.

But it wouldn't be your fault either.

If "I" do something anti Christ then "I'm" doing something anti Christ. Who's fault is it?

The bible isn't so unclear.

then why so many people believed that bible is literal?
Yes bible is not unclear if you take it literal. But your explainations to the verses of bible.....
Lets just say you're really imaginative...

People get things wrong. Did you notice that? The bible is quite clear, no imagination required. Literalism = ignorance k.

Are you saying that if the bible isn't literal than it's bullshit? Or that the bible is absolutely literal in your opinion? I see zero statements to support your assertion, so am forced to conclude nothing different to what I previously thought, just like any other reader.

Im saying that your excuses about bible being illiteral is bullshit. Bible itself is also bullshit. bible has no secret divine meaning other than its obvious meanings.

No secret no. No literal bollocks either. Literalism is intellectually indefensible, hence why I can't support it. Just one point to back up your assertion would be good.

Reason is something you are not familiar I believe...

Yet you seem incapable of demonstrating why.

Actually you seem incapable of noticing them. My conclusion is created under the facts that I clearly mentioned several times.
But I know its a waste of time. You wont see the truth Even if its as clear as a bell..
I am actually waiting the moment that you will say "your posts are not literal.."

I've explained the huge illogicality of your points, and you have no argument. This leads me to conclude that your points are invalid, unless you can make one stick. Face the truth anna and don't stay things you can't support with reasoon.

Edit:

The premise of xtianity is the need for faith. If God provided solid proof there would be no need for faith. Get it?

oh I missed this one.. You were having problems with recognizing illogicality. That statement pretty much is the definition of illogicality..

How so anna? Yet again a baseless assertion.

[annatar]

If they understood wrong they're still wrong. If I read out of context that the bible condones taking an eye for an eye, then I would be doing something against what Christ would have done.

But it wouldn't be your fault either.

If "I" do something anti Christ then "I'm" doing something anti Christ. Who's fault is it?

Not yours if you don't have clear instructions about which is christ and which is anti christ.

The bible isn't so unclear.

then why so many people believed that bible is literal?
Yes bible is not unclear if you take it literal. But your explainations to the verses of bible.....
Lets just say you're really imaginative...

People get things wrong. Did you notice that? The bible is quite clear, no imagination required. Literalism = ignorance k.

People get things wrong easily when they dont have clear instructions.
Bible is not clear I would asked for you to explain noah's ark or sodom and gomorrah or story of job.
But I know you will make up some lunetic explainations and say this is clear...

Are you saying that if the bible isn't literal than it's bullshit? Or that the bible is absolutely literal in your opinion? I see zero statements to support your assertion, so am forced to conclude nothing different to what I previously thought, just like any other reader.

Im saying that your excuses about bible being illiteral is bullshit. Bible itself is also bullshit. bible has no secret divine meaning other than its obvious meanings.

No secret no. No literal bollocks either. Literalism is intellectually indefensible, hence why I can't support it. Just one point to back up your assertion would be good.

lets see...
I believe bible is bullshit Becouse there is no evidence to prove bible is the words of god. Becouse bible is full of contradictions. Becosue stories in bible contains violence, hatred towads homosexuals, intolerance to unbelievers. Becouse god in bible constantly acting like a jerk. And I believe your assumption of bible being illiteral is bullshit becosue you dont have anything logical to back up your "bible is not literal" assertion.(how is that now?)

Reason is something you are not familiar I believe...

Yet you seem incapable of demonstrating why.

Actually you seem incapable of noticing them. My conclusion is created under the facts that I clearly mentioned several times.
But I know its a waste of time. You wont see the truth Even if its as clear as a bell..
I am actually waiting the moment that you will say "your posts are not literal.."

I've explained the huge illogicality of your points, and you have no argument. This leads me to conclude that your points are invalid, unless you can make one stick.

No you didn't explained you just said its illogical. telling something illogical does not make it so. And you are ignoring the facts that I based on.

Face the truth anna and don't stay things you can't support with reasoon.

yes bible for example has nothing to do with reason yet you are continually defending it....
I am telling my reasons. And they are logical. You just dont agree with them. And I understand that. becouse if you agree with me you will have to stop believing in christianity. And it seems you are not ready for this step.(I hope one day you will be.)

Edit:

The premise of xtianity is the need for faith. If God provided solid proof there would be no need for faith. Get it?

oh I missed this one.. You were having problems with recognizing illogicality. That statement pretty much is the definition of illogicality..

How so anna? Yet again a baseless assertion.

"The premise of xtianity is the need for faith. If God provided solid proof there would be no need for faith. Get it?"
1-So why did jesus turned the water into wine or walked on water? What's the reason of those miracles? they seemed solid proofs to me..
2-Why do god needs people to have faith? Is he lacking selfesteem? This request is so ungodlike...

3-You are telling that god wants us to accept whatever he told us without evidence? If so, wouldn't be the 'believing in bible literally' a logical conclusion?

Ps: I am asking questions but they are not literal questions.. Some of them are just here to point out the obvious answers.

[fr0d0]

I'm done anna. I'd just be repeating myself now, and you seem incapable of clear thought.

[annatar]

So runnig away are you? (of course not literally)
only kidding. You are right. There is nothing much left to say. You are so deluded you will never accept the truth.

[chatpilot]

Todays modern Christians have made most of the bible practically allegorical because taken literally the bible makes no damn sense. I have heard some Christians go as far as saying that Adam and Eve are not real historical characters and that the garden of Eden is not a literal place. But if this is so then why does the bible bother to give Adam a geneology and even tells you how old he was when he died? Also the N.T. acknowledges that Adam was a real person as well: 12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Romans 5:12-14

If there was no Adam then there was no sin and no reason for Christ to die on the cross to redeem us from sin. I also believe that the six days of creation were meant to be understood as literal six days not no undetermined amount of time as some of these dumb ass theologians claim.