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Current time: November 3, 2026, 5:36 pm
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Apparitions from heaven???
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  (November 1, 2016 at 7:59 pm)Stimbo Wrote: That's the story, yes. How was the rest of the Solar System not affected? Why did nobody outside this one tiny village not notice anything? You can see the effects of the Sun's apparent diurnal motion every day. Have the Sun nipping about the sky off its axis and more than half the planet is going to spot something odd, even if everything else is equal. Because it was a visual miracle for the people who were gathered at that spot. It wasn't supposed to actually have effects in the solar system, or to be seen by everyone in the world. The 3 children had been claiming to be seeing and speaking with the Virgin Mary for quite some time. Nobody in the town believed them. So Mary said she'd do something on October 13 at 1:00pm (I think that was the time she said) at that exact spot to show people that they were not lying. So the kids got the word out there that something would happen at that spot at that time. And tens of thousands of people came and gathered there that day to see.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh  RE: Apparitions from heaven???
November 1, 2016 at 8:15 pm
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2016 at 8:24 pm by pocaracas.)
 (November 1, 2016 at 8:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Because it was a visual miracle for the people who were gathered at that spot. It wasn't supposed to actually have effects in the solar system, or to be seen by everyone in the world. So what are we saying happened, here? Was it the actual Sun moving around, or a visual phenomenon localised to this one tiny village? If the former, how were the concomitant effects negated? If the latter, how to prove it beyond group hallucination and wishful thinking?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
 (November 1, 2016 at 8:15 pm)pocaracas Wrote: After hours in the scorching sun, some people claimed to have seen a wobble. And of course after 100 years of people telling & retelling the story, it went from a little wobble to the sun dancing all around the sky & changing colors.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
 (November 1, 2016 at 6:45 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(November 1, 2016 at 6:35 pm)Stimbo Wrote: What about it do you find convincing? Or a miracle? And not everyone saw the so called apparition that were there. Not to mention, there are quite a few natural explanations for the apparition, like a sun-dog, stratospheric dust (which caused a similar event in China, but they did not call it a miracle), and others. Not to mention, that no one else in any other town in the area saw the apparition, not did any astronomer. You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence. (November 1, 2016 at 8:18 pm)Stimbo Wrote:(November 1, 2016 at 8:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Because it was a visual miracle for the people who were gathered at that spot. It wasn't supposed to actually have effects in the solar system, or to be seen by everyone in the world. It was the actual sun moving, though without disrupting the solar system, and with only being visible to the 50k+ people gathered at that spot. The point of it was to show the town that the children were indeed telling the truth. So it had no effect on the world or on everyone else who was not there. I just find it very unlikely that tens of thousands of people had the same hallucination at the same time, as predicted by 3 kids. Not everyone there were Catholics who believed the kids and who actually expected to see something. Also, the kids didn't say it would have anything to do with the sun... just that something would happen, but they had no idea what it would be.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
You think thousands of people, even if that figure is accurate, reporting having seen the Sun literally flying around off its axis with no physical effects is more convincing than literally millions of people on the rest of the planet not seeing anything at all?
This miracle is even more remarkable than it says on the tin.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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