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RE: Shouldn't the right to die be a human right?
December 14, 2016 at 12:25 am
I'm out. I think you're being intentionally dense, and I just don't wanna. 
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: Shouldn't the right to die be a human right?
December 14, 2016 at 12:33 am
(This post was last modified: December 14, 2016 at 12:37 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Why am I dense? Because I let the wind out of these sails? The "right to die" -even if it were officially recognized, which it doesn't have to be (because no one can stop us and we already have a right to refuse treatment), would not confer the right to assist others in death.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Shouldn't the right to die be a human right?
December 14, 2016 at 12:39 am
Don't we already have this thread?
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RE: Shouldn't the right to die be a human right?
December 14, 2016 at 12:44 am
Rhythm Wrote: (December 14, 2016 at 12:01 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Well, my dad was in a situation where he was conscious but unable to end his life as he wanted. I don't think the portrait is as monochromatic as you're painting it, myself.
Unable or unwilling? It's as monochromatic as mortality, and no amount of making it too personal to argue will change that. Human lives are tenuous. If you're conscious, you can end it, if you aren't.......You aren't there anyway. Your father could have, but didn't. Not a judgement, a statement of fact.
I haven't heard of anyone being able to think themselves dead. Hold one's breath only works in the minds of children.
And when you're in a hospital as a quadriplegic, death is not just a matter of willpower. Questions of medical liability can and do keep doctors from enacting your own wishes.
This is not me making an appeal to personal emotions. This is me telling you what I've witnessed at the time of my father's dying. You can believe it or not. That doesn't add any heft to your point.
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RE: Shouldn't the right to die be a human right?
December 14, 2016 at 1:34 am
(This post was last modified: December 14, 2016 at 1:39 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(December 14, 2016 at 12:44 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I haven't heard of anyone being able to think themselves dead. Hold one's breath only works in the minds of children.
And when you're in a hospital as a quadriplegic, death is not just a matter of willpower. Questions of medical liability can and do keep doctors from enacting your own wishes. Competing imperatives, but that's never going to go away - even if there was a "right to die". Nevertheless, no matter how skilled the physician, they cannot keep you alive if you do not want to be. Which is why it's pointless to legislate life. Willpower? I suppose thats part of it, but not the relevant part, "willpower" can neither kill you nor keep you alive, on it's on.
Quote:This is not me making an appeal to personal emotions. This is me telling you what I've witnessed at the time of my father's dying. You can believe it or not. That doesn't add any heft to your point.
You witnessed something, but you did not and cannot witness the only relevant metric in the situation you described. It;s not an issue of believing. You say he wanted to die and yet did not. Obviously, you're missing something, or some part of the sory was never related to you. We're not exactly indestructible. No one is holding anyone hostage, in life. We have right to refuse treatment, even quads. The only time we don't have such a right, is when "we" aren't there in the first place. Even if we didn't, again, human...frail.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Shouldn't the right to die be a human right?
December 14, 2016 at 1:39 am
(This post was last modified: December 14, 2016 at 1:40 am by Jesster.)
(December 14, 2016 at 12:39 am)bennyboy Wrote: Don't we already have this thread?
I was thinking that, but they are at least contextually different. One is about morality and the other is about rights (although this thread mentions morality as well).
My answer to both threads is about the same, though. In most situations it's amoral and we should have the right to it. There are always exceptions, of course. Having dependents, such as young children, is the simplest exception I can think of. Just don't fuck over someone else's life to fix your problems.
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RE: Shouldn't the right to die be a human right?
December 14, 2016 at 1:46 am
It's really common in hospitals and aged care facilities for people to ask you to give them some pills so they can die.
Can they do it themselves? Some try.
At the place I'm working, before I started, an elderly lady stood on her bed and jumped off head first.
She managed to break her neck.
As far as I'm concerned, not letting a person die peacefully is the worst type of imprisonment that exists, for the most innocent.
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RE: Shouldn't the right to die be a human right?
December 14, 2016 at 2:02 am
I have known quite a few people (family members and family friends) who ended up dying a slow and agonizing death because assisted suicide is illegal. I think it is absolutely awful that somebody of sound mind isn't allowed to just go peacefully.
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RE: Shouldn't the right to die be a human right?
December 14, 2016 at 3:05 am
My Dad's slow painful death is still pretty raw 18 months on, and it's made my attitude on this issue go from passively supporting it to downright angrily supporting it.
The fact that even in 2016, it's still banned for someone to end their own life in the case of painful terminal illness, because there are holier-than-thou child-fuckers who don't want us to "play God", fucking disgusts me. It makes me so angry it's hard to keep a civilised tongue as I discuss it.
"Sancticty of life!!!" What life? A few weeks of feeling your body slowly deteriorate as you thrash and kick and scream for it to end? For what?
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RE: Shouldn't the right to die be a human right?
December 14, 2016 at 4:52 am
(This post was last modified: December 14, 2016 at 5:29 am by robvalue.)
Yes. I believe in being legally allowed an assisted and dignified death. (However, if someone is found trying to kill themselves, I do believe that intervening can often be in their best interest. If they still want to die later, we can let them. Or maybe they were in crisis and will thank us for it.)
Of course, this should not be granted lightly. It should first be ascertained that the person is in the best mental state they are reasonably likely to return to, and that there is no case for coercion. This should be a rigerous assessment, signed off by multiple professionals.
I don't agree that you should have to be terminally ill. Just that you're in the best position to make choices that you can be. If you've lost your mind or have become incapable of communication, then previously written living wills can be considered, along with those people who have been previously elected to make such decisions. I'd sign this over to my wife right now, if I could. Don't let me suffer babe. I would trust that's enough for her to decide.
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