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RE: Mind over matter?
September 10, 2010 at 12:41 pm
(September 9, 2010 at 9:50 pm)padraic Wrote: I read that as implying that Descartes' argument is true because it has not been proved to be false. Not entirely sure that using solipists is an appeal to relevant authority as I think solipism could reasonably be described as a failed philosophy.
However,I'm a dilettante,not a philosopher,so am happy to be corrected if I've made an error in reason.
Disclaimer: As am I. That acknowledged...
I was saying "even crazy people don't dispute this." Kind of like saying, "Even Sarah Palin is to the left of these people." Solipsists, as I understand them, say we can't be sure of anything other than we have these sensations and we have these memories, all of which may or may not be true. We can't be sure of anything outside our own mind.
While I can't disprove solipsism, I regard it as an extreme position, taking skepticism to irrational lengths. We have to assume that the reality we experience is real unless evidence shows us otherwise in order to have a rational discussion about anything.
Even this extreme position acknowledges that one's own thoughts prove that one exists to oneself. It's hard for me to take seriously anyone who takes it to the next step and suggests that maybe our own thoughts aren't real.
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RE: Mind over matter?
September 10, 2010 at 2:36 pm
One problem with 'Je pense, donc je suis' is that it can only prove the existence of the self at the time of thinking that; it can't prove the continuation of the self over time. Different selves could keep popping into existence, contemplating their own existence (with false memories of their past existence in tow), then disappearing.
'We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.' H.L. Mencken
'False religion' is the ultimate tautology.
'It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions.' Mark Twain
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RE: Mind over matter?
September 11, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Why are those false memories so complete and correct?
I wonder often about the continuity issue. By now every cell in my body has replicated, and yet my identity remains continuous.
To jump to another over discussed philo issue, it is much like plato's boat, although he could not know that he was tAlking about himself...
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RE: Mind over matter?
September 12, 2010 at 5:07 am
Quote:It's hard for me to take seriously anyone who takes it to the next step and suggests that maybe our own thoughts aren't real.
Me too. However,that's an argument from incredulity and irrelevant.
Yes, I believe Descartes is probably right, and behave as if he is.However, I don't know that for a fact. A skeptic,my position is that all questions and any answers always remain open.---and that's another problem I have with religion and its claims of absolute truth(s).Whereas I think there may be some absolute truths,I'm currently unaware of any.
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RE: Mind over matter?
September 12, 2010 at 6:22 am
(September 10, 2010 at 2:36 pm)The Omnissiunt One Wrote: One problem with 'Je pense, donc je suis' is that it can only prove the existence of the self at the time of thinking that; it can't prove the continuation of the self over time. Different selves could keep popping into existence, contemplating their own existence (with false memories of their past existence in tow), then disappearing. Indeed I would further assert that existence exists inedependently of the concious and has primacy over it. You can only be concious of yourself in relation to things around you, remove all stimulii and you cannot be ceratin of your own existence. But even if you lose the power to be concious (coma for example) you still are physically instantiated in the universe and therefore still exist. Conciousness only being concious of iteslf is circular reasoning and leaves the theistic concept of god in trouble, it is a nonsensical concept.
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
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RE: Mind over matter?
September 12, 2010 at 8:15 am
Here we are again,
I like Descartes, and the IThink is a beautiful piece of philo-sophia, and owrdplay. You demonstrate an understanding of literal skepticism Padraic, and I tip my hat to that. All too often people throw around the sceptical word, and then don't allow any new information and make lots of solid conclusive statements. Descartian (?) Scepticism, or the philosophy actually names Sceipticism, is very stark and bare. All he had for certain was that he had nothing for certain.
-Pip
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RE: Mind over matter?
September 13, 2010 at 5:28 pm
(September 9, 2010 at 10:15 pm)Pippy Wrote: While describing belief in dismissive context, you have stumbled close to the answer. This reality exists as God experiencing herself, ad infinium. I think that is the point.
For fucks sake Pippy, enough of the bare assertion fallacies already!
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RE: Mind over matter?
September 13, 2010 at 5:46 pm
(September 13, 2010 at 5:28 pm)theVOID Wrote: (September 9, 2010 at 10:15 pm)Pippy Wrote: While describing belief in dismissive context, you have stumbled close to the answer. This reality exists as God experiencing herself, ad infinium. I think that is the point.
For fucks sake Pippy, enough of the bare assertion fallacies already!
They have nothing else.
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RE: Mind over matter?
September 13, 2010 at 6:05 pm
Unsurprisingly
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RE: Mind over matter?
September 14, 2010 at 3:18 am
I think describing this reality as god experiencing herself ad infinium is kind of sweet, and at least plausible. How come I get lumped in with the "God is real cuz he wrote the bible and the bible is real because it was wrote by god" crowd?
What is existence in your world view? A random capaphony, the luckiest strike in conceptual reality, one in a billion fluke accident self conscious sentience. I respect your right to see the world the way you choose to (or is it the inability to do otherwise), but I don't think my beliefs are on par with Xtian apologetics.
-Pip
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