I'm sick of hearing about the "Five Ways"!

[AceBoogie]

I'm sick of hearing about any sort of "logical proofs" that attempt to prove the existence of god.

Any time I hear some vague statement like "Our sense prove to us that some things are in motion" I die a little bit inside.

Man, am I glad I found this forum.  Every once in a while I like to talk to intelligent people.

I think many theists are intelligent, but they tend to ignore their intellect when it comes to one particular aspect of life: faith. When it comes to faith, religious nuts are willing to abandon all logic, reason and critical thinking. Religious folks will completely toss aside all common sense in order to make way for faith.

Doesn't mean they are unintelligent... just not applying their intelligence to that particular subject.

[Cephus]

I'd like to talk to intelligent theists but I have yet to find a single example of that breed.

I talked to one just a week or two ago.  Highly intelligent, in fact.  One of those people whose brains don't work like yours and mine, very socially inept, talks as if he is starved for intelligent discourse.  He said he came to his theism after doing a pretty thorough investigation of many religions and didn't have a specific "faith".  He claimed to be currently in the middle of a second look at it to make sure he got it right the first time.  He didn't hold most of the bigoted beliefs the highly religious tend to.  I was introduced to his thought process by a paper he wrote for his philosophy class, for instance, in which he tore to shreds someone's claim that homosexuality was inherently immoral, and did so brilliantly.  I dare say he may be vastly more intelligent than me.  Not that I'm a genius or anything, but living in pig fucker country, it's not something I run into often.

I meet theists all the time who are very intelligent... up until they start talking about their religion.  Then their IQ goes right out the window.  Most of these people are intelligent in spite of their religious beliefs, not because of them.  They employ a entirely different set of standards when it comes to their religion than they do when it comes to anything else.  They believe for emotional, not intellectual reasons.  Just once I'd love to see a theist who holds their religious beliefs rationally, with objective and demonstrable evidence for their particular deity, that they can actually produce for others to see and are willing to evaluate their faith in light of reason, not wishful thinking.

But we all know that simply doesn't exist.

[Asmodee]

I talked to one just a week or two ago.  Highly intelligent, in fact.  One of those people whose brains don't work like yours and mine, very socially inept, talks as if he is starved for intelligent discourse.  He said he came to his theism after doing a pretty thorough investigation of many religions and didn't have a specific "faith".  He claimed to be currently in the middle of a second look at it to make sure he got it right the first time.  He didn't hold most of the bigoted beliefs the highly religious tend to.  I was introduced to his thought process by a paper he wrote for his philosophy class, for instance, in which he tore to shreds someone's claim that homosexuality was inherently immoral, and did so brilliantly.  I dare say he may be vastly more intelligent than me.  Not that I'm a genius or anything, but living in pig fucker country, it's not something I run into often.

I meet theists all the time who are very intelligent... up until they start talking about their religion.  Then their IQ goes right out the window.  Most of these people are intelligent in spite of their religious beliefs, not because of them.  They employ a entirely different set of standards when it comes to their religion than they do when it comes to anything else.  They believe for emotional, not intellectual reasons.  Just once I'd love to see a theist who holds their religious beliefs rationally, with objective and demonstrable evidence for their particular deity, that they can actually produce for others to see and are willing to evaluate their faith in light of reason, not wishful thinking.

But we all know that simply doesn't exist.

Well that's kind of like asking for a dry rain or a hot ice cream now isn't it?

[Cephus]

I meet theists all the time who are very intelligent... up until they start talking about their religion.  Then their IQ goes right out the window.  Most of these people are intelligent in spite of their religious beliefs, not because of them.  They employ a entirely different set of standards when it comes to their religion than they do when it comes to anything else.  They believe for emotional, not intellectual reasons.  Just once I'd love to see a theist who holds their religious beliefs rationally, with objective and demonstrable evidence for their particular deity, that they can actually produce for others to see and are willing to evaluate their faith in light of reason, not wishful thinking.

But we all know that simply doesn't exist.

Well that's kind of like asking for a dry rain or a hot ice cream now isn't it?

But if this was a legitimate belief system, it should be possible to find.  That it isn't proves just how idiotic religion is.

[robvalue]

Yup, what you see is psychological defenses at work. Protect the deeply held beliefs at all costs. Say absolutely anything. DEFLECT.

This isn't unique to religious beliefs, but it's probably the most common and extreme example. The brain likes to protect its beliefs, and it's often like people "can't hear themselves".

[Asmodee]

Yup, what you see is psychological defenses at work. Protect the deeply held beliefs at all costs. Say absolutely anything. DEFLECT.

This isn't unique to religious beliefs, but it's probably the most common and extreme example. The brain likes to protect its beliefs, and it's often like people "can't hear themselves".

I've seen this in the extreme with non-religious beliefs as well.  Chemtrail believers have it especially bad.  The origin of chemtrail beliefs is LITERALLY some guy walking out his door, looking up, seeing contrails and saying to himself "I wonder if that's the government spreading mysterious chemicals in our atmosphere".  Based on JUST THAT the entire belief system was born.  There was never any evidence to suggest it or reason to believe, one guy just wondered if it was and so it was.

It can also be pretty bad with almost all woo beliefs.  I've seen it in UFO believers, Bigfoot believers, ghost believers, conspiracy theorists, Republicans who think the media is biased or liberals are evil, you name it.  They all have similar defense mechanisms in place to protect their beliefs.  I once had a lady spend 20 minutes trying to convince me that Obama's birth certificate was a forged birth certificate because the font wasn't created until the '80s and a hundred different reasons and, when that didn't work, tried to convince me instead that it was a document Hawaii issues when children are born in other countries.  So within a 40 minute time period this woman tried to convince me that it was BOTH a forged document and a legitimate document and BOTH a birth certificate and not a birth certificate.  She held two beliefs at the same time which were mutually exclusive to one another and went straight from one to the other without missing a beat, completely sure that both were true even though that was doubly impossible.  Not to mention that it's just downright stupid to believe that all foreign births have to be registered in Hawaii for some reason.  Somehow I don't think the other countries of the world agreed to that.  I have no proof, mind you.  It's just a feeling...

[robvalue]

Wow!

It's easier to tell more one more lie to yourself than it is to consider that your whole belief is built on lies.