How literally should we take the Qur'an ?

[arewethereyet]

Quran, just like Bible, claims that God created the universe in six days. Earth is created on the first day. Four days later, God creates the sun, moon, and stars.

And why do you consider this to be a mistake? The duration of a day in these verses isn't the one we're familiar with, it could be any arbitrary duration that only God knows, the theist can legitimately argue along these lines.

But there is one thing that doesn't change, even if the durations are disagreed upon: ratios of durations !

With this in mind, some muslim apologists went further and turned the tables, there is a numerical miracle in the verses about creation :

Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. (9)

He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance). (10)

Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience." (11)
 
So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. (12) 

[7-9,10,11,12]

From these verses we learn that : 

(1) In the first two days of creation (out of 6): God created the Earth.

(2) In the first four days of creation (which overlap with the first two days above): God bestowed mountains, and various sources of nourishment and blessings.

(3) In the last two days (out of 6): He completed the heavens as seven firmaments. 

The two last statements can easily be misunderstood, especially when the verse is not read in Arabic. The statement (1) however is clear and incontrovertible, it can't be interpreted in any other way, the age of the Earth is 2/6 that of the creation as a whole (e.g. the universe), and 2/6 is 1/3.

We now know that the age of the Earth is 4.5 billion years, and that of the universe is is approximately 13.7 billion years, the ratio 4.5/13.7 (=0.328...) is very close to 1/3.

If we take more decimals in the ratio from available data 4.543/13.787 = 0.3295.., we only get closer and closer to 1/3.

Why wouldn't god create the mountains, nourishments, and whatever the heck blessings are on the same day that he created the earth?  Seems like god is a poor time manager.  

Did (s)he look at the earth and decide it needed lumps?

[R00tKiT]

He never claimed they did this. He was pointing out that no one needed a god to learn this stuff and it's possible he honestly attributed his own understanding to a revelation from god. 

You could've said that if there were only one risky claim such as water being present in all organisms. There are dozens of other similar claims.

The probability of getting one risky claim right: 1/2=0.5

two risky claims : 1/4=0.25

four risky claims : 1/16=0.0625.

Let's be generous and say there are only 30 risky statements in the Qur'an (out of a total of 6236 verses): the probability of getting all of them right is 1/2^30 = 9.3132257e-10 = 9.3132257 x 10-10 = 0.00000000093132257.

You're free to believe that the prophet is that lucky, ofc.

[The Architect Of Fate]

There has not been a single claim thus far I have seen that I would regard as "risky" so your numbers don't impress me .....

[R00tKiT]

Why wouldn't god create the mountains, nourishments, and whatever the heck blessings are on the same day that he created the earth?

That's a well-known objection: God seems to waste resources/not allocate them optimally (such as time in this case). But I don't have to remind you, there is no need to worry about efficiency or wasting time when you are the creator of time..  

If there are scarce resources : we should allocate them intelligently.

If the resource is unlimited : efficiency/resource allocation is meaningless.

And, obviously, God purportedly has unlimited time.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Just because you could do something ineffectively doesn't mean you would or that it would make sense that you would .....

[Nay_Sayer]

Depends op, How seriously do you take the Silmarillion?

[The Grand Nudger]

I wonder how allah is going to feel about being called a bumblefuck and a lollygagger by a true muslim.

[Fake Messiah]

Quran, just like Bible, claims that God created the universe in six days. Earth is created on the first day. Four days later, God creates the sun, moon, and stars.

And why do you consider this to be a mistake? The duration of a day in these verses isn't the one we're familiar with, it could be any arbitrary duration that only God knows, the theist can legitimately argue along these lines.

Why? Are you kidding me? I ask because I explained it in the second part of that post. What, you failed to read it?

Here, I'll paste it again

Indeed, using confirmation bias with arrogance, any creation myth can be "true".

Take an ancient Chinese myth which tells us that everything started in chaos. The universe was like a black egg (a black hole?). A god named Pan Gu, wielding an axe, breaks the egg and the heavens begin to expand. The fleas and lice on Pan Gu's body evolve into humankind.

And that is what you are doing with"days can mean millions of years" and similar. Maybe flees are single cells, black egg is a black hole, etc.

[R00tKiT]

Indeed, using confirmation bias with arrogance, any creation myth can be "true".

Take an ancient Chinese myth which tells us that everything started in chaos. The universe was like a black egg (a black hole?). A god named Pan Gu, wielding an axe, breaks the egg and the heavens begin to expand. The fleas and lice on Pan Gu's body evolve into humankind.

And that is what you are doing with"days can mean millions of years" and similar. Maybe flees are single cells, black egg is a black hole, etc.

It's not even remotely plausible to refer to a black hole as a black egg.. and modern science doesn't tell us the universe came from a black hole (afaik). It's really unfair of you to compare this silly myth with the Qur'anic verses that I mentioned.

I didn't invent the interpretations of a day in the Qur'an. It's explicitly mentioned in the Qur'an that the word day doesn't refer to the duration we're familiar with :

And, verily, a day with your Lord is as a thousand years of what you reckon [al-Hajj 22:47] 

The angels and the Rooh [Jibreel] ascend to Him in a Day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years [al-Maaarij 70:4]

I anticipate a possible misunderstanding of the first verse: it doesn't say that a day of creation is equal to 1000 years, the verse explicitly uses the preposition "as" to make it clear that this is a mere comparison : a day as used in the Qur'an is a very extended period of time, such as 1000 years.

In the second verse the Qur'an explicitly considers the duration of 50000 years to be a single day.  This is enough to justify the interpretation of the verses of creation as referring to periods of millions (billions?) of years :

The duration of a day in these verses isn't the one we're familiar with, it could be any arbitrary duration that only God knows, the theist can legitimately argue along these lines.

But there is one thing that doesn't change, even if the durations are disagreed upon: ratios of durations !

With this in mind, some muslim apologists went further and turned the tables, there is a numerical miracle in the verses about creation :

Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. (9)

He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance). (10)

Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience." (11)
 
So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. (12) 

[7-9,10,11,12]

From these verses we learn that : 

(1) In the first two days of creation (out of 6): God created the Earth.

(2) In the first four days of creation (which overlap with the first two days above): God bestowed mountains, and various sources of nourishment and blessings.

(3) In the last two days (out of 6): He completed the heavens as seven firmaments. 

The two last statements can easily be misunderstood, especially when the verse is not read in Arabic. The statement (1) however is clear and incontrovertible, it can't be interpreted in any other way, the age of the Earth is 2/6 that of the creation as a whole (e.g. the universe), and 2/6 is 1/3.

We now know that the age of the Earth is 4.5 billion years, and that of the universe is is approximately 13.7 billion years, the ratio 4.5/13.7 (=0.328...) is very close to 1/3.

If we take more decimals in the ratio from available data 4.543/13.787 = 0.3295.., we only get closer and closer to 1/3.

[The Grand Nudger]

Numerology.