Trump's Muslim immigration ban includes green card holders

[Assimilate]

Not sure it was covered as I haven't gone back to read, but I've seen reports where these countries Obama had on a list. If true, it's just a list and the action is different. I'm willing to bet the countries not barred on the list have economical ties more to then just Trump. Regardless, I find the way this has transpired, especially towards legal citizens to be very wrong, and un-American.

[Marsellus Wallace]

the balls on this guy...
i'm really hoping for a WWIII, just any shit that will destroy my country and it'll be enough reason to quit my job.

[abaris]

Ah, I see, Trump's election brings back lost idiots. Not surprised that it attracts certain personalities.

[Tiberius]

Not sure it was covered as I haven't gone back to read, but I've seen reports where these countries Obama had on a list. If true, it's just a list and the action is different. I'm willing to bet the countries not barred on the list have economical ties more to then just Trump. Regardless, I find the way this has transpired, especially towards legal citizens to be very wrong, and un-American.

The Obama administration came up with the list as "countries of concern".

Trump is now trying to blame Obama by saying he came up with the list.

I call bullshit on that because while Obama came up with the list, he never imposed any immigration restrictions of the level that Trump has now. This is on Trump and we shouldn't let him pass the buck.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Hmmm...

(Not saying people from those 4 other countries should be banned, just interesting)

I'm not putting any opinions forward here because I admit I know little about American politics.  So I am genuinely asking this as a question not a rhetorical question.

But isn't this what America has always done?

Hasn't every single president or wannabe president (Hilary Clinton) either spoke about or directly ordered the bombing or military intervention against places like Libya, Somalia, Syria, Iraq, Iran and so on.  While at the same time ignoring Turkey the Saudis and Egypt.

Obviously there's other countries with higher populations of Muslims too, Pakistan, Indonesia.

The countries on the list have weak national governments and they are infested with ISIS.  The US doesn't have the capability to do detailed investigations of visa applicants in those countries to determine if potential visitors have terrorist ties.  The countries not on the list have better national infrastructure in place to determine if visa applicants have terrorist ties.  

The ban bars people also bans people from the 38 Visa Waiver Program countries if they have been to one of those countries unless they have a visa.  IOW, a person from England can't go to Yemen and then back to England and then to the US unless he gets a US visa.  

Of course the reason why those countries have weak governments is because of American and European interference in their domestic affairs. But that's beside the point.  Just be aware that if other countries, such as England, France, Germany, Canada don't play by our rules they will also be placed on the list.

---

Not sure it was covered as I haven't gone back to read, but I've seen reports where these countries Obama had on a list. If true, it's just a list and the action is different. I'm willing to bet the countries not barred on the list have economical ties more to then just Trump. Regardless, I find the way this has transpired, especially towards legal citizens to be very wrong, and un-American.

The Obama administration came up with the list as "countries of concern".

Trump is now trying to blame Obama by saying he came up with the list.

I call bullshit on that because while Obama came up with the list, he never imposed any immigration restrictions of the level that Trump has now. This is on Trump and we shouldn't let him pass the buck.

Trump didn't impose a permanent ban.  It's temporary until we come up with a better system.  Consider it like a shop being closed for remodeling or being temporarily out of stock on certain items.  The intent is to provide the best customer service possible so he's suspending certain operations until he gets a better system in place.

[Iroscato]

I'm not putting any opinions forward here because I admit I know little about American politics.  So I am genuinely asking this as a question not a rhetorical question.

But isn't this what America has always done?

Hasn't every single president or wannabe president (Hilary Clinton) either spoke about or directly ordered the bombing or military intervention against places like Libya, Somalia, Syria, Iraq, Iran and so on.  While at the same time ignoring Turkey the Saudis and Egypt.

Obviously there's other countries with higher populations of Muslims too, Pakistan, Indonesia.

The countries on the list have weak national governments and they are infested with ISIS.  The US doesn't have the capability to do detailed investigations of visa applicants in those countries to determine if potential visitors have terrorist ties.  The countries not on the list have better national infrastructure in place to determine if visa applicants have terrorist ties.  

The ban bars people also bans people from the 38 Visa Waiver Program countries if they have been to one of those countries unless they have a visa.  IOW, a person from England can't go to Yemen and then back to England and then to the US unless he gets a US visa.  

Of course the reason why those countries have weak governments is because of American and European interference in their domestic affairs. But that's beside the point.  Just be aware that if other countries, such as England, France, Germany, Canada don't play by our rules they will also be placed on the list.

---

The Obama administration came up with the list as "countries of concern".

Trump is now trying to blame Obama by saying he came up with the list.

I call bullshit on that because while Obama came up with the list, he never imposed any immigration restrictions of the level that Trump has now. This is on Trump and we shouldn't let him pass the buck.

Trump didn't impose a permanent ban.  It's temporary until we come up with a better system.  Consider it like a shop being closed for remodeling or being temporarily out of stock on certain items.  The intent is to provide the best customer service possible so he's suspending certain operations until he gets a better system in place.

Sure, except we're talking about thousands of lives being uprooted for no good reason and a legal entanglement shitstorm that will have untold ramifications instead of a few mildly inconvenienced customers. Yet again, you show your astonishing lack of empathy, not to mention utter failure to grasp reality.


Oh noes! I insulted you again!

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Tiberius,

---

Thanks for the update.  There is a provision in the EO, Section 5(e), that allows entry for people who were already in transit and denying them admission would cause undue hardship.  That gave the Judge an out for ruling the way she did.

The problem is that Trump's writers wrote the thing like the Second Amendment (in mud) without specifying all of the fine points.  And he was in such a hurry that he didn't have the people charged with carrying it out proofread it and correct the flaws.  

If Trump doesn't have some honest critics to review his actions his yes men & women will get his ass burned off.  It's like the dummy who misspelled the British PM's name twice on official correspondence.  Details matter.

---

The problem I have is that it should have been explicit from the start with regards to lawful permanent residents. Even with the provision you noted, the Trump administration has flip flopped multiple times on whether the EO applied to green card holders. For instance, during the chaos at airports with legal US residents being denied entry to their home, Trump himself said the EO was "working out very nicely". The DHS originally said on Friday that it wouldn't affect permanent residents, but the white house overruled them and said that it would, and green card holders would be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Then, finally, on Sunday the Secretary of the DHS declared that the order wouldn't apply to green card holders.

By the way, I don't buy the excuse that Trump didn't have the people to proofread the EO. The LA Times managed to get a draft of the order several days before it was signed: http://documents.latimes.com/read-draft-...-refugees/

That means it was being worked on for days, weeks maybe before Trump came into power.

I wonder why the LA Times didn't pick out those details and tell the rat that gave it the copy that it was horse shit?  Then the rat could have passed the news back to the rat pack.  So now we know that the LA Times was onboard with the EO and saw nothing wrong with it.  The onion has a lot of rings.  

From a practical matter there's nothing wrong with the President-elect having certain EOs all ready to go at 1 p.m. on January 20.  He should have them because he's had months to draft them.  So if they are leaked to the media it's because he wanted them to be leaked or else he has a traitor on his team.  Since the LA Times is hostile towards Trump he has a traitor on his team.

---

Hey Wyrd, look at this pathetic snowflake!

http://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/vi...4561033052

That's great propaganda.  If he had gone to Germany he wouldn't have had such problems.  

Castro and a couple of his buddies took over Cuba.  A handful of ISIS thugs took over a lot of Iraq and Syria.  If the people won't fight back and defend their own ancestral lands from a few guys with a couple of guns and knives do you think they will have the guts to defend the countries that they flood into?  They could have easily killed the first ISIS thugs without any problem.  They didn't because they were cowards and collaborators.  

Sorry but I have no tears to give.

[Marsellus Wallace]

Ah, I see, Trump's election brings back lost idiots. Not surprised that it attracts certain personalities.

whats up with u man ? ever occurred to you that i might be joking. dont be so.. 

whats my personality like ? other than ofc fucking awesome 

[GUBU]

I'm not putting any opinions forward here because I admit I know little about American politics.  So I am genuinely asking this as a question not a rhetorical question.

But isn't this what America has always done?

Hasn't every single president or wannabe president (Hilary Clinton) either spoke about or directly ordered the bombing or military intervention against places like Libya, Somalia, Syria, Iraq, Iran and so on.  While at the same time ignoring Turkey the Saudis and Egypt.

Obviously there's other countries with higher populations of Muslims too, Pakistan, Indonesia.

Yeah you are right. There is a history of them going after the little countries or easy targets to "spread democracy" while ignoring the more powerful states. I think they just know where their interests lie, financially speaking.

I was a child at the time so I'm not entirely sure what the exact full story behind Bush declaring war on Iraq, but that seemed like a completely random "just because" response to 9/11 too.

Three reasons, Shrub wanted to get revenge for Papa Shrub as he thought Iraq I (VI if you're British) cost Papa the election, the PNAC wanted to take control of Iraqi oil to flood the market and destroy OPEC, and the State Dept and Rice wanted to take control of Iraqi oil to stop it from flooding onto the market and destroying OPEC. Darth Cheney wanted to do all three.

Given such clear and complimentary goals it's surprising that Iraq became such a clusterfuck.

[Catholic_Lady]

Syrian Orthodox Christian family turned away at Pennsylvania airport following Trump's immigration ban after they waited nearly 15 years to enter the US

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z4XIWvhbB7