Present a BETTER worldview

[krazedkat]

You make it sound like the universe was made for us, it wasn't. The universe just came into existence, we're not sure HOW. We are the aftermath, the life that has survived, not created for it, but by it.

[Tiberius]

No one has yet to give a BETTER explanation for our existance than God did it.

"God did it" is not an explanation. It's a wild, baseless assertion for which there is no evidence.

[Rayaan]

"God did it" is not an explanation. It's a wild, baseless assertion for which there is no evidence.

What else could it be if God didn't do it? For example:

(A) The universe can't create itself; (B) The universe can't come out of pure nothingness, because that would mean that the nothingness had "created" something; and [C] If you think that universe existed infinitely into the past (without any evidence), then similarly, why cannot God exist in the eternal past as well? I don't have any evidence for my belief that God created the universe, because for me, this is something based on intuition and a process of elimination because it can't be anything else.

[Tiberius]

[C] If you think that universe existed infinitely into the past (without any evidence), then similarly, why cannot God exist in the eternal past as well?

On the contrary; all the existing evidence points to the universe existing for all of time, since time started at the Big Bang.

Why can't God exists in the eternal past as well? I never said it couldn't, although there is no evidence for its existence, and all the existence of God does is create more questions. A far more elegant solution to dreaming up an all-powerful super-being is to make no assumptions and look at the evidence.

[Rayaan]

On the contrary; all the existing evidence points to the universe existing for all of time, since time started at the Big Bang.

Why can't God exists in the eternal past as well? I never said it couldn't, although there is no evidence for its existence, and all the existence of God does is create more questions. A far more elegant solution to dreaming up an all-powerful super-being is to make no assumptions and look at the evidence.

I think a super-natural being is something beyond the realm of scientific observation. And therefore, finding evidence of God is not a possible thing in the first place. That's why we can only depend on our reasoning, logic, and intuitive thinking to know the truth. So, that's the reason why I believe in a God even though I don't have any evidence for His existence.

... I guess that's what faith is all about, eh?

[DiRNiS]

On the contrary; all the existing evidence points to the universe existing for all of time, since time started at the Big Bang.

Why can't God exists in the eternal past as well? I never said it couldn't, although there is no evidence for its existence, and all the existence of God does is create more questions. A far more elegant solution to dreaming up an all-powerful super-being is to make no assumptions and look at the evidence.

I think a super-natural being is something beyond the realm of scientific observation. And therefore, finding evidence of God is not a possible thing in the first place. That's why we can only depend on our reasoning, logic, and intuitive thinking to know the truth. So, that's the reason why I believe in a God even though I don't have any evidence for His existence.

... I guess that's what faith is all about, eh?

Unfortunately the questions surrounding the origins of life and the universe may not be answered in our lifetime :-( but because science has still not been able to find all the answers, we cannot automatically assume "god did it".

It may only be a matter of time until we find the answers to these questions. Humans used to think lightning, rain, earthquakes and other natural phenomena were being generated by gods until science (in this case geology and meteorology) found the reason for them. I think it will be the same type of scenario with the origins of the universe and life.

BTW, even if the universe had a divine origin, what makes you think it was the particular god you happen to believe in? For all we know, it could have been the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn or an Invisible Magic Wizard with the body of a horse and the head of a snake. Or perhaps it wasn't just one deity, but a number of deities, maybe the three beings I mentioned got together and each created one part of the universe. All of these explanations are about as "valid" as "YHWH or Allah did it". I cannot prove any of them wrong, but just because they cannot be disproved does not make them true.

[Welsh cake]

If you think that universe existed infinitely into the past (without any evidence), then similarly, why cannot God exist in the eternal past as well? I don't have any evidence for my belief that God created the universe, because for me, this is something based on intuition and a process of elimination because it can't be anything else.

So basically you have nothing then.

Sorry Rayaan, but intuition doesn't cut it. Your personal subjective ideas and preferences dictate them, not what is objectively demonstrable within reality. You can't justify a belief with just an intuition alone. They can be wrong and consequently are downgraded to misjudgements as a result. You can hold irrational propositions that are known to be horribly false like "2 + 2 = 2", for example.

One can just as easily say they have a gut feeling the universe was dreamt up by a giant space whale, and this can be done without going through any thought-process, observation and/or reasoning.

And by 'process of elimination' I assume you're prepared to automatically rule out every other possibility for the current universe's existence in favour of your own particular brand of god-concept? How charming.

On what basis or standards do you reject other propositions as false yet assert your personal preference as true? Considering you're resorting to such weak logic by seeking to preserve your "justified" god belief regardless of whether it's true or not.

Until you actually present evidence "God did it" will remain a non-answer.

[Ace Otana]

I think a super-natural being is something beyond the realm of scientific observation. And therefore, finding evidence of God is not a possible thing in the first place. That's why we can only depend on our reasoning, logic, and intuitive thinking to know the truth. So, that's the reason why I believe in a God even though I don't have any evidence for His existence.

... I guess that's what faith is all about, eh?

It's because god is such a far fetched and unverifiable claim that it becomes a non-answer. It is a useless explanation. It doesn't give us greater knowledge or understanding in anything, and we can't confirm any of it.
Just because we don't know exactly how the universe came about doesn't mean we should jump to baseless assertions.

One day we might know. The universe may have always existed in one form or another. That's a good possibility. Also that is something we can find out and verify, unlike goddidit.

[Ashendant]

Some scientist think the universe maybe stuck in a loop of Big bangs and big crunchs

[Ace Otana]

Some scientist think the universe maybe stuck in a loop of Big bangs and big crunchs

I remember reading that somewhere. In an old book that I read bits of years ago.

If I remember correctly, the idea is that it starts with a big bang, the universe expands and expands til it starts to slow down and come back into it self. Then the sheer forces pulling it altogether that compresses all that energy into a tiny ball which sparks off another big bang. A natural cycle.

I find the idea quite interesting.