Posts: 23918
Threads: 300
Joined: June 25, 2011
Reputation:
151
RE: What would you call my new beliefs?
March 1, 2017 at 9:15 am
(This post was last modified: March 1, 2017 at 9:15 am by Whateverist.)
When we were single cell organisms we were all one and immortal besides. But we gave up all that for a better existence albeit one with an expiration date. Meh.
Posts: 10470
Threads: 165
Joined: May 29, 2013
Reputation:
53
RE: What would you call my new beliefs?
March 1, 2017 at 9:21 am
I believe there's no god.
Anybody need a tl;dr for that?
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
Posts: 23918
Threads: 300
Joined: June 25, 2011
Reputation:
151
RE: What would you call my new beliefs?
March 1, 2017 at 9:25 am
Just once I'd like the TL;DR to be: "derp".
Posts: 66324
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: What would you call my new beliefs?
March 1, 2017 at 9:29 am
(March 1, 2017 at 7:53 am)SteveII Wrote: Inductively, to escape the logical absurdity that physical matter always existed, what we are left with as an explanation is a non-physical, timeless, un-caused, force that was powerful enough to bring matter into existence out of nothing.
The problem that I see constantly here is that most of you are missing the fact that the case for God is a cumulative case. No one thing is meant to be the defining argument. Here is just the list from Natural Theology (as opposed to revealed theology in the Bible or personal experience in people's lives)
a. God is the best explanation why anything at all exists.
b. God is the best explanation of the origin of the universe.
c. God is the best explanation of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.
d. God is the best explanation of intentional states of consciousness.
e. God is the best explanation of objective moral values and duties.
Guess what you get when you put five shitty arguments together? A shitty argument.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 10470
Threads: 165
Joined: May 29, 2013
Reputation:
53
RE: What would you call my new beliefs?
March 1, 2017 at 9:33 am
(March 1, 2017 at 9:25 am)Whateverist Wrote: Just once I'd like the TL;DR to be: "derp".
That does have less characters than what I wrote.
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
Posts: 3045
Threads: 14
Joined: July 7, 2014
Reputation:
14
RE: What would you call my new beliefs?
March 1, 2017 at 10:11 am
(March 1, 2017 at 9:29 am)Khemikal Wrote: (March 1, 2017 at 7:53 am)SteveII Wrote: Inductively, to escape the logical absurdity that physical matter always existed, what we are left with as an explanation is a non-physical, timeless, un-caused, force that was powerful enough to bring matter into existence out of nothing.
The problem that I see constantly here is that most of you are missing the fact that the case for God is a cumulative case. No one thing is meant to be the defining argument. Here is just the list from Natural Theology (as opposed to revealed theology in the Bible or personal experience in people's lives)
a. God is the best explanation why anything at all exists.
b. God is the best explanation of the origin of the universe.
c. God is the best explanation of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.
d. God is the best explanation of intentional states of consciousness.
e. God is the best explanation of objective moral values and duties.
Guess what you get when you put five shitty arguments together? A shitty argument.
Well, I would rather have a well constructed set of arguments that demonstrate that I have an internally consistent worldview, then to cobble together a bunch of "we don't knows", "brute facts", theories impossible to apply scientific methods to, and a huge list of assumptions without the possibility of ultimate answers.
Posts: 947
Threads: 0
Joined: May 12, 2016
Reputation:
11
RE: What would you call my new beliefs?
March 1, 2017 at 10:22 am
(March 1, 2017 at 7:53 am)SteveII Wrote: (February 28, 2017 at 8:57 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Yes, we are.
But Krauss's theory is not meant to answer that. It is only meant to answer why our universe, in its present form, exists.
Problem is, your answer does not have any explanatory power. It has plenty of explanatory scope, but no power.
Explaining a mystery (why the universe exists), by appealing to a bigger mystery (a universe creating god), does not actually EXPLAIN anything. And it only creates more questions. Positing a panacea to explain a mystery, explains nothing.
In other words, a hypothesis that explains everything explains nothing.
Inductively, to escape the logical absurdity that physical matter always existed, what we are left with as an explanation is a non-physical, timeless, un-caused, force that was powerful enough to bring matter into existence out of nothing.
The problem that I see constantly here is that most of you are missing the fact that the case for God is a cumulative case. No one thing is meant to be the defining argument. Here is just the list from Natural Theology (as opposed to revealed theology in the Bible or personal experience in people's lives)
a. God is the best explanation why anything at all exists.
b. God is the best explanation of the origin of the universe.
c. God is the best explanation of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.
d. God is the best explanation of intentional states of consciousness.
e. God is the best explanation of objective moral values and duties.
So you're basically redefining terms like "best" and "explanation".
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
Posts: 3045
Threads: 14
Joined: July 7, 2014
Reputation:
14
RE: What would you call my new beliefs?
March 1, 2017 at 10:37 am
(March 1, 2017 at 10:22 am)Harry Nevis Wrote: (March 1, 2017 at 7:53 am)SteveII Wrote: Inductively, to escape the logical absurdity that physical matter always existed, what we are left with as an explanation is a non-physical, timeless, un-caused, force that was powerful enough to bring matter into existence out of nothing.
The problem that I see constantly here is that most of you are missing the fact that the case for God is a cumulative case. No one thing is meant to be the defining argument. Here is just the list from Natural Theology (as opposed to revealed theology in the Bible or personal experience in people's lives)
a. God is the best explanation why anything at all exists.
b. God is the best explanation of the origin of the universe.
c. God is the best explanation of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.
d. God is the best explanation of intentional states of consciousness.
e. God is the best explanation of objective moral values and duties.
So you're basically redefining terms like "best" and "explanation".
No, this is simply a list of the top 5 Natural Theology arguments that I believe conclude that "God is the best explanation for...". While I think the arguments are sound, since atheism and it's attendant Naturalism does not have any explanation, I'm afraid the bar is not set very high as to best.
If you want to talk about a particular argument, start a new thread. I will participate.
Posts: 947
Threads: 0
Joined: May 12, 2016
Reputation:
11
RE: What would you call my new beliefs?
March 1, 2017 at 10:41 am
(March 1, 2017 at 10:37 am)SteveII Wrote: (March 1, 2017 at 10:22 am)Harry Nevis Wrote: So you're basically redefining terms like "best" and "explanation".
No, this is simply a list of the top 5 Natural Theology arguments that I believe conclude that "God is the best explanation for...". While I think the arguments are sound, since atheism and it's attendant Naturalism does not have any explanation, I'm afraid the bar is not set very high as to best.
If you want to talk about a particular argument, start a new thread. I will participate.
You have no arguments, just assertions. I'll pass.
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
Posts: 3045
Threads: 14
Joined: July 7, 2014
Reputation:
14
RE: What would you call my new beliefs?
March 1, 2017 at 10:48 am
(This post was last modified: March 1, 2017 at 11:08 am by SteveII.)
(March 1, 2017 at 10:41 am)Harry Nevis Wrote: (March 1, 2017 at 10:37 am)SteveII Wrote: No, this is simply a list of the top 5 Natural Theology arguments that I believe conclude that "God is the best explanation for...". While I think the arguments are sound, since atheism and it's attendant Naturalism does not have any explanation, I'm afraid the bar is not set very high as to best.
If you want to talk about a particular argument, start a new thread. I will participate.
You have no arguments, just assertions. I'll pass.
So, you were not really looking for a discussion, just looking for kudos for cheap shots that you are not equipped to back up. Good to know where you are on the "thinker vs. cool-aid-drinker" scale.
|
