Have you read the good book?

[vorlon13]

How would you ever know if God never shows up IF you don't know who God is.

No two believers ideas of god seem the same.

If a presumptive deity appeared and started spouting unadulterated Evangelical Lutheran Church in America dogma I'm sure despite any supernatural affectations that entity displayed, the Presbyterians, Baptists, Catholics, Methodists and Baneemyites would all agree that deity was a manifestation of Satan.

[Drich]

How would you ever know if God never shows up IF you don't know who God is.

No two believers ideas of god seem the same.

That is because God is infinite, and we are finite. So we being finite grab a hold and talk about the tiny little piece of the finite we can understand.

The ultimate measure of what is and is not God can only be found in the bible.

---

No two believers ideas of god seem the same.

If a presumptive deity appeared and started spouting unadulterated Evangelical Lutheran Church in America dogma I'm sure despite any supernatural affectations that entity displayed, the Presbyterians, Baptists, Catholics, Methodists and Baneemyites would all agree that deity was a manifestation of Satan.

But here's the thing... Who do we worship? The God of the baptist the God of the lutherns The God of_______???

Ultimately all religious expressions are wrong to one degree or another, and like wise all Jesus Christ centered religions are right to one degree or another.. And to take it a step further the bible points out there will be a very large 'non Christian' population found in Heaven also.

This means that Christianity/Salvation are not about the title we give ourselves, its not about the pews we sit in, and it not about 'dogma' or 'doctrine'. It is about the judgement Christ makes. If Christ is the decider of who has and does not have righteousness through atonement, then He can and will decide interdependently of dogma and doctrine who is worthy of salvation and who is not. This is what so terrible upset the Pharisees. Christ was userpting the role of religion. He dare place His authority of that of the 'church.'

The church before Christ has no authority, the church's role on an eternal time frame is that of wife/head of the house hold. The church's role is not to create dogma and doctrine but to carry out the wish and will of Christ. If a manifestation of the church believes that they have authority beyond that of a servant to God, that their tradition or doctrinal beliefs supersede the authority of Christ or what Christ has said.. Then I would say most of those members of that church will be surprised after their judgement is over.

In short there is a good reason no one denominations beliefs are spelled out in the bible. that they for the most part have to cherry pick to create their core doctrines.. That's because despite what many believe we were meant to live in freedom. So much freedom we have the right to bind ourselves with church doctrine and dogma is this is all we understand.

So yes I can see Jesus talking to the lutherns, but I can also see Him speaking to the baptists, catholics and everyone else (As he does in the first coule of chapters of revelation) telling each of them where they lack, and how to tighten up or be prepared to find themselves outside of christ's judgement

[KUSA]

[Huggy Bear]

[Angrboda]

The ultimate measure of what is and is not God can only be found in the bible.

And you know this how exactly? Your devotion to 'biblical Christianity' is just another dogmatic religious doctrine, founded on nothing.

[vorlon13]

which Bible springs to mind . . . . . .

[Neo-Scholastic]

Like you've ever presented evidence to back up any of your assertions.

Your incredulity and/or hyper-skepticism does not equate to “no evidence” on my part.

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So whenever anyone doesn't find god, it is always their fault.

Yeah, pretty much.

[downbeatplumb]

Like you've ever presented evidence to back up any of your assertions.

Your incredulity and/or hyper-skepticism does not equate to “no evidence” on my part.

---

So whenever anyone doesn't find god, it is always their fault.

Yeah, pretty much.

And yet no evidence has been presented. You keep brining up Aquinas's 5 ways as though they were evidence in some way, they aren't.
An argument is just that, they need to be backed by supporting evidence.
Or else a scientist could just say "that's probably quantum" about everything and not bother actually checking.
What you have presented isn't good enough on its own to count as evidence.

[Cyberman]

Just because my bar for what I accept as compelling evidence is set a little higher than yours appears to be doesn't make me hyper-sceptical. Nor does the evidence as might be presented being invariably sleight of hand, outright lies and/or not actually what it says on the tin. Incredulity, properly applied, isn't the condemnation you try to make it sound. It's actually a vital survival tool, standing between me and solar roadways, homeopathy, thorium cars, timeshare apartments and other similar snake oil.

Give me something that actually supports whatever your point is, that is unambiguous, and that doesn't rely on logical fallacies and lies for its propagation, and I will consider it. But don't blame me if nothing remains once all the setritus is boiled away.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Your incredulity and/or hyper-skepticism does not equate to “no evidence” on my part.

And yet no evidence has been presented. You keep brining up Aquinas's 5 ways as though they were evidence in some way, they aren't.

With respect to Aquinas, the demonstrations are based on common observations, i.e. things about the world that are 'evident'. That's what evidence means. It is evident that beings can persist despite changes (1W). It is evident that efficient causes are essentially ordered (2W. It is evident that there is something rather than nothing (3W). It is evident that some things better instantiate their kind (4W). It is evident that causes have regular effects (5W). More recently, I have been mentioning other things that are evident: the natural instinct of humans to believe, apprehension one's self in relation to being-as-such, and cross-cultural consistency in mystical experiences of the divine. All that counts as evidence. I can appreciate if you feel the evidence does not support my conclusion, but that's not the same thing as claiming "no evidence."