Neil DeGrasse Tyson on Disproving God

[SteveII]

This is why out of all gods, the Biblical God is probably one of the least likely of gods to be true.

Belief in such a god entails that reason, evidence and logic all get tossed out the window. Theist's justification? Because He is "special". Why is he special? Because he's God. It's all a bunch of circular logic and special pleading.

When a belief is relentlessly instilled into someone from the moment they are born, he/she perceives, what are demonstrably the best tools (reason, evidence, logic) in acquiring knowledge about our universe, as being enemies of God. Out of fear and social pressure, theists simply lean on the side of God. A god whose basic existence hasn't been demonstrated.

Belief in the Biblical God is not knowledge. It limits knowledge.

It seems you have built up a straw man (your caricature of a god no one believes in) and coupled it with another straw man (your caricature of Christian who think as you proposes) -- so your arguments/reasons seem successful. I don't think you could fit any more nonsense into a post that length.

[masterofpuppets]

This is why out of all gods, the Biblical God is probably one of the least likely of gods to be true.

Belief in such a god entails that reason, evidence and logic all get tossed out the window. Theist's justification? Because He is "special". Why is he special? Because he's God. It's all a bunch of circular logic and special pleading.

When a belief is relentlessly instilled into someone from the moment they are born, he/she perceives, what are demonstrably the best tools (reason, evidence, logic) in acquiring knowledge about our universe, as being enemies of God. Out of fear and social pressure, theists simply lean on the side of God. A god whose basic existence hasn't been demonstrated.

Belief in the Biblical God is not knowledge. It limits knowledge.

It seems you have built up a straw man (your caricature of a god no one believes in) and coupled it with another straw man (your caricature of Christian who think as you proposes) -- so your arguments/reasons seem successful. I don't think you could fit any more nonsense into a post that length.

It's not a strawman when so many theists (not only Christians, I used their god only as an example) don't believe in evolution and indeed base a large amount of their worldview on scripture.

I'm addressing theists on the more fundamentalist side, not necessarily all theists, but that is still a large portion of theists overall. You are misrepresenting the point of my post.

[SteveII]

This is why out of all gods, the Biblical God is probably one of the least likely of gods to be true.

Belief in such a god entails that reason, evidence and logic all get tossed out the window. [1] Theist's justification? Because He is "special". Why is he special? Because he's God. It's all a bunch of circular logic and special pleading. [2]

When a belief is relentlessly instilled into someone from the moment they are born, he/she perceives, what are demonstrably the best tools (reason, evidence, logic) in acquiring knowledge about our universe, as being enemies of God. Out of fear and social pressure, theists simply lean on the side of God. [3] A god whose basic existence hasn't been demonstrated. [4]

Belief in the Biblical God is not knowledge. It limits knowledge. [5]

It seems you have built up a straw man (your caricature of a god no one believes in) and coupled it with another straw man (your caricature of Christian who think as you proposes) -- so your arguments/reasons seem successful. I don't think you could fit any more nonsense into a post that length.

It's not a strawman when so many theists (not only Christians, I used their god only as an example) don't believe in evolution and indeed base a large amount of their worldview on scripture. [6]

I'm addressing theists on the more fundamentalist side [7], not necessarily all theists, but that is still a large portion of theists overall. You are misrepresenting the point of my post.

No, I got the point of your post. I'm just saying that are wrong on many levels.

1. None of the three things follows from "Belief in God". So, you either don't know what you are talking about or you are intentionally describing an extreme to make your point sound better. Either way, straw man.
2. I'm starting to think it is 'you don't know what you are talking about'.
3. I have a defeater for that logic - tens of millions of adult conversions to Christianity each year. 
4. I think that the existence of God has been demonstrated. All you can say it that you are not convinced by the evidence. You don't have any other warrant to make a claim than that. 
5. That's quite a loaded statement. How so? 
6. I believe in various parts of evolutionary theory. I don't think common decent has been anywhere near proven. Perhaps buried in your assertions is the unwarranted belief that all (or even a majority) of Christians are YEC. Either way, this does not in any way support your overall premise.
7. You think fundamentalist are a large portion of theists?  Setting aside that you are wrong, how do you define fundamentalist Christians and what is the major problem with movement?

[Harry Nevis]

This is why out of all gods, the Biblical God is probably one of the least likely of gods to be true.

Belief in such a god entails that reason, evidence and logic all get tossed out the window. [1] Theist's justification? Because He is "special". Why is he special? Because he's God. It's all a bunch of circular logic and special pleading. [2]

When a belief is relentlessly instilled into someone from the moment they are born, he/she perceives, what are demonstrably the best tools (reason, evidence, logic) in acquiring knowledge about our universe, as being enemies of God. Out of fear and social pressure, theists simply lean on the side of God. [3] A god whose basic existence hasn't been demonstrated. [4]

Belief in the Biblical God is not knowledge. It limits knowledge. [5]


It's not a strawman when so many theists (not only Christians, I used their god only as an example) don't believe in evolution and indeed base a large amount of their worldview on scripture. [6]

I'm addressing theists on the more fundamentalist side [7], not necessarily all theists, but that is still a large portion of theists overall. You are misrepresenting the point of my post.

No, I got the point of your post. I'm just saying that are wrong on many levels.

1. None of the three things follows from "Belief in God". So, you either don't know what you are talking about or you are intentionally describing an extreme to make your point sound better. Either way, straw man.
2. I'm starting to think it is 'you don't know what you are talking about'.
3. I have a defeater for that logic - tens of millions of adult conversions to Christianity each year. 
4. I think that the existence of God has been demonstrated. All you can say it that you are not convinced by the evidence. You don't have any other warrant to make a claim than that. 
5. That's quite a loaded statement. How so? 
6. I believe in various parts of evolutionary theory. I don't think common decent has been anywhere near proven. Perhaps buried in your assertions is the unwarranted belief that all (or even a majority) of Christians are YEC. Either way, this does not in any way support your overall premise.
7. You think fundamentalist are a large portion of theists?  Setting aside that you are wrong, how do you define fundamentalist Christians and what is the major problem with movement?

3.  Lessee, a few posts ago, it was millions of converts.  Now it's tens of millions.  Not that that has anything to do with logic.

[Mister Agenda]

Imagine if we were having this conversation about anything else.

Person A: Almost every American citizen was born in America.
Person B: But hundreds of thousands of people who weren't born in America become citizens every year!
Person A: Well, yeah, but my point still stands, since the vast majority are still born there.
Person B: Oh, yeah, I suppose it does, what was I thinking?

[SteveII]

Imagine if we were having this conversation about anything else.

Person A: Almost every American citizen was born in America.
Person B: But hundreds of thousands of people who weren't born in America become citizens every year!
Person A: Well, yeah, but my point still stands, since the vast majority are still born there.
Person B: Oh, yeah, I suppose it does, what was I thinking?

No, that is not a good analogy. Puppet Master said that Christians belief is a result of 'relentlessly instilled into someone from the moment they are born' as a component to his line of reasoning why 'reason, evidence, logic' are 'enemies of God'. I was just being thorough in my trashing of his reasoning. 

[masterofpuppets]

This is why out of all gods, the Biblical God is probably one of the least likely of gods to be true.

Belief in such a god entails that reason, evidence and logic all get tossed out the window. [1] Theist's justification? Because He is "special". Why is he special? Because he's God. It's all a bunch of circular logic and special pleading. [2]

When a belief is relentlessly instilled into someone from the moment they are born, he/she perceives, what are demonstrably the best tools (reason, evidence, logic) in acquiring knowledge about our universe, as being enemies of God. Out of fear and social pressure, theists simply lean on the side of God. [3] A god whose basic existence hasn't been demonstrated. [4]

Belief in the Biblical God is not knowledge. It limits knowledge. [5]


It's not a strawman when so many theists (not only Christians, I used their god only as an example) don't believe in evolution and indeed base a large amount of their worldview on scripture. [6]

I'm addressing theists on the more fundamentalist side [7], not necessarily all theists, but that is still a large portion of theists overall. You are misrepresenting the point of my post.

No, I got the point of your post. I'm just saying that are wrong on many levels.

1. None of the three things follows from "Belief in God". So, you either don't know what you are talking about or you are intentionally describing an extreme to make your point sound better. Either way, straw man.
2. I'm starting to think it is 'you don't know what you are talking about'.
3. I have a defeater for that logic - tens of millions of adult conversions to Christianity each year. 
4. I think that the existence of God has been demonstrated. All you can say it that you are not convinced by the evidence. You don't have any other warrant to make a claim than that. 
5. That's quite a loaded statement. How so? 
6. I believe in various parts of evolutionary theory. I don't think common decent has been anywhere near proven. Perhaps buried in your assertions is the unwarranted belief that all (or even a majority) of Christians are YEC. Either way, this does not in any way support your overall premise.
7. You think fundamentalist are a large portion of theists?  Setting aside that you are wrong, how do you define fundamentalist Christians and what is the major problem with movement?

1. There is no way someone can become convinced that God exists through proper examination of the available evidence coupled with the use of reason and logic in determining whether arguments for God are viable.
2. Please elaborate on your rebuttal here instead of simply claiming I don't know what I am talking about.
3. Yes, because they often do so out of social pressure, fear or a personal desire to seek out a deity (which comes down to having faith). There is no evidence to suggest that God exists; neither does proper use of reason and logic lead one to conclude that God exists.
4. Yes, and there are billions of other people who also think the existence of God has been demonstrated. My claim, however, is not that I am not convinced by the evidence. My claim is that there is no reason to be convinced that a God exists. This is also not a claim that I believe to be absolutely true. It is a claim that I believe is true with reasonable certainty. Belief in a god is not reasonable because it has not been demonstrated to be reasonable. Of course theists think it is reasonable, but that's not relevant.
5. The Biblical God gives you solutions to unanswered questions without basis, and that causes you to lose your motivation to seek the true answer.
6. Did I say all or majority? I said "so many": 42% of Christians in the United States believe in the Creationist account of human origins. By the way, common decent has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Like it or not, macroevolution is a scientific fact. Also, I never mentioned Young Earth creationists.
7. I consider Christians who do not believe in evolution, and instead Creationism, as fundamentalist Christians, so that's 42%. There's clearly a problem when 42% of Christians accept a 2000 year old collection of fabricated scribblings instead of the scientific method.

[SteveII]

[masterofpuppets]

[Neo-Scholastic]