Trans people & sports

[Amarok]

You've swung way too far to the left if you can't even bear the idea of people discussing natural inequalities between genders, races, etc. The second the goal is to stymie discussion, you're veering toward authoritarianism. Again, if the conversation bothers anyone to the point where they can't even bear that it is exist, go talk about something else. There is nothing at all wrong with entertaining an idea enough to debate about it.

What about the same subject repeatedly brought up again and again. This isn't exactly a new topic. It's the same bullshit each time. No one ever mentions transmen on testosterone having to fight against
Cisgendered women for example. Or androgen insensitivity or intersex people, it's slways male to female transgendered. There is clearly some other motive for these threads.

True that . This conversation is dead and buried and keep being dug up the same tired arguments are brought up only to then be buried again . It's the abortion debate all over again . There is nothing to entertain it's social science creationism.

[Shell B]

What about the same subject repeatedly brought up again and again. This isn't exactly a new topic. It's the same bullshit each time. No one ever mentions transmen on testosterone having to fight against
Cisgendered women for example. Or androgen insensitivity or intersex people, it's slways male to female transgendered. There is clearly some other motive for these threads.

True that . This conversation is dead and buried and keep being dug up the same tired arguments are brought up only to then be buried again . It's the abortion debate all over again . There is nothing to entertain it's social science creationism.

Just because you've had the conversation a bunch of times does not mean other people have. As for abortion, there's always news about the state of abortion in this country, so there is always something new to bring to the table.

I never suspected there would be so many people wishing a conversation wouldn't happen just because they don't want to have it. Again, if you've had the conversation and want to talk about something else, go talk about something else instead of shaming people for talking about a subject that interests them, even if only passingly.

[Amarok]

True that . This conversation is dead and buried and keep being dug up the same tired arguments are brought up only to then be buried again . It's the abortion debate all over again . There is nothing to entertain it's social science creationism.

Just because you've had the conversation a bunch of times does not mean other people have. As for abortion, there's always news about the state of abortion in this country, so there is always something new to bring to the table.

I never suspected there would be so many people wishing a conversation wouldn't happen just because they don't want to have it. Again, if you've had the conversation and want to talk about something else, go talk about something else instead of shaming people for talking about a subject that interests them, even if only passingly.

1. I never said other people have

2. The state of abortion and the key arguments about abortion are two different things .The key abortion arguments almost never change and it just goes around in circles as this forum has shown.

3.I'm just pointing out this has been beaten to death there is nothing new under the sun.  

4. Pointing out the futility of a conversation is not the "shaming" weather passingly or not .

5. All the above pretty much justifies the general malaise about a dead subject.

[Shell B]

Calling it a dead subject insinuates that people have talked about it enough, so people who haven't talked about it shouldn't. This forum gets new users all the time. People who like to debate find someone else to debate the topic with. Again, if you have talked about it enough, go talk about something else, especially if the only thing you have to contribute is, "other people have talked about this before."

I think the real problem isn't that people are talking about it. It's that some people have a different opinion than those of you who don't want it talked about anymore, or are willing to entertain that trans women shouldn't compete against biological women. You don't want to hear it anymore, so you complain about the topic. If this thread were, "Trans woman successfully competes against biological woman and everyone is okay with it." you'd have no problem with people discussing the athlete's physical attributes and talking about her right to compete.

[Amarok]

Calling it a dead subject insinuates that people have talked about it enough, so people who haven't talked about it shouldn't. This forum gets new users all the time. People who like to debate find someone else to debate the topic with. Again, if you have talked about it enough, go talk about something else, especially if the only thing you have to contribute is, "other people have talked about this before."

I think the real problem isn't that people are talking about it. It's that some people have a different opinion than those of you who don't want it talked about anymore, or are willing to entertain that trans women shouldn't compete against biological women. You don't want to hear it anymore, so you complain about the topic. If this thread were, "Trans woman successfully competes against biological woman and everyone is okay with it." you'd have no problem with people discussing the athlete's physical attributes and talking about her right to compete.

1. Yup people have talked enough about it . The subjects been covered . But if people wanna waste time on it I can't stop them .

2. Yup we get new members we also preserve threads

3. I have plenty to say and have said it so has countless others on either side

4. Your free to think what you like. And a conceive baseless devious motivations to other people. And imagine reactions to imagined subjects that have not been broached to reinforce said thought .

[Shell B]

1. Yup people have talked enough about it . The subjects been covered . But if people wanna waste time on it I can't stop them .

2. Yup we get new members we also preserve threads

3. I have plenty to say and have said it so has countless others on either side

4. Your free to think what you like. And a conceive baseless devious motivations to other people. And imagine reactions to imagined subjects that have not been broached to reinforce said thought .

1. It's a waste of your time because you've talked about it. People who haven't and want to exchange thoughts aren't wasting their time. They are spending their time in a way they enjoy, which is great.

2. It is against the rules to necropost. Therefore, new threads are created. Also, who wants a fifty-page thread?

3. Great. Good for you. You obviously have nothing more to say on the topic nor do the people you've spoken about this with, so move on while people who want to discuss it do.

4. The "motivations" I posited were hardly devious. They also were not baseless. The only people who seem to care that this is being discussed are the people who don't believe trans women have any physical differences that would make competition with biological women unfair. It is not a far leap to suggest that maybe they don't want to talk about it because they don't want to hear people suggest that maybe, just maybe, trans women are somewhat different from biological women.

5. If you don't want to discuss this soooo badly, again, go talk about something else, ffs.

[Amarok]

1. Yup people have talked enough about it . The subjects been covered . But if people wanna waste time on it I can't stop them .

2. Yup we get new members we also preserve threads

3. I have plenty to say and have said it so has countless others on either side

4. Your free to think what you like. And a conceive baseless devious motivations to other people. And imagine reactions to imagined subjects that have not been broached to reinforce said thought .

1. It's a waste of your time because you've talked about it. People who haven't and want to exchange thoughts aren't wasting their time. They are spending their time in a way they enjoy, which is great.

2. It is against the rules to necropost. Therefore, new threads are created. Also, who wants a fifty-page thread?

3. Great. Good for you. You obviously have nothing more to say on the topic nor do the people you've spoken about this with, so move on while people who want to discuss it do.

4. The "motivations" I posited were hardly devious. They also were not baseless. The only people who seem to care that this is being discussed are the people who don't believe trans women have any physical differences that would make competition with biological women unfair. It is not a far leap to suggest that maybe they don't want to talk about it because they don't want to hear people suggest that maybe, just maybe, trans women are somewhat different from biological women.

5. If you don't want to discuss this soooo badly, again, go talk about something else, ffs.

1. Something can both be a waste of time and be enjoyable

2. I'm aware of the rules my point is I doubt a new thread will find something not already covered

3. No

4. The only people who" seem"  huh . And are you or are you not accusing people of dishonesty? And the accusatory tone doesn't help your case. And yes the is quite a leap because it's equally possible this is a dead subject that there simply sick of hearing  it just like they keep blatantly telling you.

5. No   ffs .

[Shell B]

1. It's a waste of your time because you've talked about it. People who haven't and want to exchange thoughts aren't wasting their time. They are spending their time in a way they enjoy, which is great.

2. It is against the rules to necropost. Therefore, new threads are created. Also, who wants a fifty-page thread?

3. Great. Good for you. You obviously have nothing more to say on the topic nor do the people you've spoken about this with, so move on while people who want to discuss it do.

4. The "motivations" I posited were hardly devious. They also were not baseless. The only people who seem to care that this is being discussed are the people who don't believe trans women have any physical differences that would make competition with biological women unfair. It is not a far leap to suggest that maybe they don't want to talk about it because they don't want to hear people suggest that maybe, just maybe, trans women are somewhat different from biological women.

5. If you don't want to discuss this soooo badly, again, go talk about something else, ffs.

1. Something can both be a waste of time and be enjoyable

2. I'm aware of the rules my point is I doubt a new thread will find something not already covered

3. No

4. The only people who" seem"  huh . And are you or are you not accusing people of dishonesty? And the accusatory tone doesn't help your case. And yes the is quite a leap because it's equally possible this is a dead subject that there simply sick of hearing  it just like they keep blatantly telling you.

5. No   ffs .

1. Doing something you enjoy is never a waste of time.

2. Sure, it probably won't. Who cares?

3. Then stop derailing the thread and talk about the topic at hand.

4. What the fuck are your stupid quotes even about? Yes, the only people who seem to care. I'm not accusing people of dishonesty. I'm leaving room for the idea that perhaps some people don't care as much about as I think they do and wouldn't like me saying they care that much that people are talking about this.

5. There is a simple solution for not reading something you're sick of reading. You're an adult, I presume. Therefore, I can logically assume that you know the solution. You're basically telling me that you're sick of reading it, but you will not stop reading it when told you can just move on to another topic, so the problem is, most certainly, on your end. Go ahead and keep irritating yourself, but honestly, this thread has been derailed with complaints about the topic not being good enough for long enough. If you want to start a thread about why people should or shouldn't engage in discussions you've already have, go for it.

[Catholic_Lady]

I never suspected there would be so many people wishing a conversation wouldn't happen just because they don't want to have it. Again, if you've had the conversation and want to talk about something else, go talk about something else instead of shaming people for talking about a subject that interests them, even if only passingly.

I'm not surprised, personally.

Some people feel uncomfortable when they are faced with a conflict between what they know is common sense logic, and their politically correct narrative. And instead of just choosing to stay out of it, they comment only to make the old "why are we talking about this when there are starving children in Africa" argument.

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I don't think anyone has a right to compete. I do think everyone who competes has a right to a fair competition, which means any unfair advantages should be prohibited.

In the case of male to female transsexuals, they are genetically still male, and have male anatomy (bone structure, size, etc). Males are physically stronger than women in general, which is why we don't have men compete against women. This seems like how we should handle transsexuals competing in order to keep things fair.

This^

It's really not that complicated of an issue. All it takes is being intellectually honest and objective, rather than trying to take the far left, "politically correct" approach to everything.

[Amarok]

Indeed this .This is wrong

At lest according to a 2015 study by journal of sports and culture by professor Joanna  Harper cheif  med at providence medical center in oregon (still trying to dig up a none pdf version to link)Which proved that transmales lose most of there muscle and bone denisty to around higher female norms via hormones . As well as most of there so called unfair advantages stamina , upper strenght  ,endurance  . As for fairness in general there is no such thing as universal fairness in sport ( and i don't even need to quote Cyde Zeiglerto or any of his books to state that) . So am i aloud to declare this subject dead now .Or am i just trying to "not have a coversation or " Am being PC" or " rejecting common sense" Or maybe i have looked into this and know this line of reasoning is false. And thus were arguing over nothing.