Trans people & sports

[The Grand Nudger]

Bringing us right back round to bitching about some particular trans winning something, but still no sign of any trans advantage..in her case, or the general case.. more than probably any other case. I suppose we could dig all the way back into the 70's to find more trans not winning something, that no one knows about, and no one gives a shit about.

Maybe she should throw a fight, lol.

---

Here's a fun aside.  While the IOC's decision may seem progressive in relation to the common joe/lenes intuitional expectations of how a ballgame plays out when a "man" gets to play with girls....it might be positively regressive with respect to their very own data.  Separating competitors into classes by weight and sex alone.. would show itself to be far less than what was required to approach some sort of equity or sporting fairness.  

Is the vast cultural conspiracy that nuts point to actually railroading trans in...or keeping fair play out? Would a more equitable placement system be a step too far for olympic viewers and society at large, at present?

[Whateverist]

But how do we know men won't have their bits snipped, get breast implants and try to pass as women just to win a medal? Huh, huh? What about that? It would be so easy to ...

Actually, no. I don't think I'd do it. Who would?

[The Grand Nudger]

It would be a losers bet, I sure as shit wouldn't, lol.

[paulpablo]

Bringing us right back round to bitching about some particular trans winning something, but still no sign of any trans advantage..in her case, or the general case.. more than probably any other case. I suppose we could dig all the way back into the 70's to find more trans not winning something, that no one knows about, and no one gives a shit about.

Maybe she should throw a fight, lol.

---

Here's a fun aside.  While the IOC's decision may seem progressive in relation to the common joe/lenes intuitional expectations of how a ballgame plays out when a "man" gets to play with girls....it might be positively regressive with respect to their very own data.  Separating competitors into classes by weight and sex alone.. would show itself to be far less than what was required to approach some sort of equity or sporting fairness.  

Is the vast cultural conspiracy that nuts point to actually railroading trans in...or keeping fair play out? Would a more equitable placement system be a step too far for olympic viewers and society at large, at present?

I'm not bitching about her winning a fight but you were talking about her just winning really well here and there and that's wrong even if you take into account her amateur fights which according to you she won them all.

[Amarok]

It would be a losers bet, I sure as shit wouldn't, lol.

Agreed some of the lame stuff the anti trans come up with it's almost as loopy as people who say "if we let gays marry how will you stop people from marrying a toaster oven" same shit different pile really

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm not bitching about her winning a fight but you were talking about her just winning really well here and there and that's wrong even if you take into account her amateur fights which according to you she won them all.

The records are kept by league and promoter agreements.  That's why they don't always agree.  We could find more fights if we went looking - she's fought more than 10 tens.  Did you know who she was before she really fucked the other girl up, though?  Did people wonder about her trans advantage before she outed herself?  Where did it go when she lost?  Why is she not good enough for the UFC, with her trans advantage?  Is "The Trans Advantage™_ actually not a demonstrable advantage to being trans at all, just the unfortunate situation of having been a trans who won something?

What purpose, exactly, in the trans advantage question...does pointing to her winning serve whether she won a single fight, or a hundred fights? Anybody else, we'd be talking about her skill, wouldn't we? There wouldn't be any silent implication to what a person perceives as her abnormal success. Would her success demonstrate a trans advantage..or an individual advantage?

[paulpablo]

Where do you find the records of all her fights?

I wouldn't say winning is proof there is an advantage, I'd just say based on the fights you and I have spoke about she hasn't just won a few fights like you said, she's won the vast majority of fights, all except one, and three by knockout.

[The Grand Nudger]

Where do you find the records of all her fights?

By googling her.........but again, you aren't likely to find them all, even though you can find more than you were aware of.  It's just the way the sport is.  

I wouldn't say winning is proof there is an advantage, I'd just say based on the fights you and I have spoke about she hasn't just won a few fights like you said, she's won the vast majority of fights, all except one, and three by knockout.

Mountains out of molehills.  Her entire careers worth of fights only amounts to a few fights, and isn't representative of trans performance in sport overall.  Do you think, personally, that on the basis of her record one might assume she has this Trans Advantage we hear about?

What I said....was this-

What she seems to have done wrong, like Laurel Hubbard, is win something in a big way every now and again.

Which is what she did, and what drew down the ire. Same with Hubbard. Neither are pointed to as exceptional within the totality of their fields, in the female division. Fox, in particular, doesn;t fit the bill for Trans Advantage even as it;s presented by people who imagine there to be one. She doesn't have greater muscle mass than her competitors..or an immutability masculine shape (like an extreme reach advantage)..her hormone levels are legit, and if she does have denser bones, it;s no more or less of an advantage than when a black girl fights a white girl (or a white guy..for that matter). No one's clamoring for racial purity in divisions, not even the gender purity cranks.

[paulpablo]

Where do you find the records of all her fights?

By googling her.........but again, you aren't likely to find them all, even though you can find more than you were aware of.  It's just the way the sport is.  

I wouldn't say winning is proof there is an advantage, I'd just say based on the fights you and I have spoke about she hasn't just won a few fights like you said, she's won the vast majority of fights, all except one, and three by knockout.

Mountains out of molehills.  Her entire careers worth of fights only amounts to a few fights, and isn't representative of trans performance in sport overall.  Do you think, personally, that on the basis of her record one might assume she has this Trans Advantage we hear about?

What I said....was this-

What she seems to have done wrong, like Laurel Hubbard, is win something in a big way every now and again.

Which is what she did, and what drew down the ire.  Same with Hubbard.  Neither are pointed to as exceptional within the totality of their fields, in the female division.  Fox, in particular, doesn;t fit the bill for Trans Advantage even as it;s presented by people who imagine there to be one.  She doesn't have greater muscle mass than her competitors..or an immutability masculine shape (like an extreme reach advantage)..her hormone levels are legit, and if she does have denser bones, it;s no more or less of an advantage than when a black girl fights a white girl.  No one's clamoring for racial purity in divisions, not even the gender purity cranks.

She hasn't won something in a big way every now and again though, she's won more than every now and again and lost less than every now and again.  She's lost one and won 8 that you know of. 

I tend to lean in agreement with what a lot of people have said on this thread concerning the fact that I don't think that advantage necesserily means an unfair fight, some women have more testosterone than others naturally and I don't know where the line should be drawn although I admit to not be an expert in the subject.

But even with that being my perspective it seems dishonest to say that Falon Fox has won in a big way everynow and again when she's lost one fight out of eight.

[The Grand Nudger]

She hasn't won something in a big way every now and again though,

She cranked a girl once and people lost their shit.

she's won more than every now and again and lost less than every now and again.  She's lost one and won 8 that you know of. 

-she's won something in a big way..a grand total of once...and even that's suspect..since her competitors are considered to be second class competitors (or worse).  

I tend to lean in agreement with what a lot of people have said on this thread concerning the fact that I don't think that advantage necesserily means an unfair fight, some women have more testosterone than others naturally and I don't know where the line should be drawn although I admit to not be an expert in the subject.

What advantage, what trans advantage does she have?  Hell, what advantage does she have period.  Shes not bigger, she's not a "better" shape, you understand that her hormone levels aren't at issue, and her bones are no more or less an advantage than that possessed by the darker fighter™ in an inter-racial match.  

What advantage.....?

But even with that being my perspective it seems dishonest to say that Falon Fox has won in a big way everynow and again when she's lost one fight out of eight.

She's not good enough for the UFC, not even close, not even against women, or so the party line goes.  What "seems dishonest" to you is just a recounting of how the hubbub began for her.