The false self and our knowledge of it's deception proves God.

[ignoramus]

Get some pussy MK! There you will find God... and everything will start making sense. Not before... No more silly Allah posts until then!

(well that bought us some time at least to regroup and come up with a counterstrategy to MK's bewildering watertight arguments! lol!)





NOT.... sadly.

[Brian37]

It's not a paradox. I value myself above others because I'm responsible for my body. No one else is. At least not once I grew up enough to take care of myself. It's just a personal responsibility to value yourself more than others, otherwise you'd wither away and die.

That doesn't follow. All that proves is you ought to take responsibility for yourself and actions, not that you ought to value yourself more than others.

Why does anyone of any religion feel the need to attach life to a book or sky hero? Nothing in life is a perfect utopia or script.

"Take responsibility", in what context because that is a loaded cliche. Humans can go as individuals doing their best and still fail. And life is not a matter of never valuing yourself, you should, it is why you don't cross a busy street without looking both ways for traffic. No, having that self preservation does not mean one has to be selfish either.

We say this to Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists and Christians. NOBODY owns a patent on morality. Humans as individuals are perfectly capable of empathy and doing good regardless of their pet claims. I don't remember which founder said it but "To do good is my religion". But even then that is a loaded cliche because everyone has their own idea of what "good " is.

Some think title and class is the seat of morality, others think their economic ideology is the seat of morality, others think their religious club is the seat of morality. Yet our species has never been a separate species. Ultimately no matter our different views we are still the same species and we are all still stuck on the same planet. I think the best responsibility would be shifting our species priorities away from labels and put those on the back burner and focus on solving issues of pollution, reducing human conflict and provide more humans with economic stability worldwide.

[henryp]

This goes back to the idea from a different thread that value requires a perspective.

I value me the most from my perspective. I think, from your perspective, you should value yourself the most. The ideas are not conflicting when you include perspective.

Also, those are such loose interpretations of Worship and God, that you likely lose most of the standard meanings associated with them.

[GrandizerII]

Deception of ourselves and our knowledge of our false idol proves God.

1. Worship is what is valued most.
2. Each person tends to value themselves the most.
3. No person believes others ought to value them the most.
4. We are in double think where we value ourselves as number one but don't believe others ought to value ourselves the most.
5. Each person committed to valuing themselves the most thus creates a false belief, they don't truly believe they should be valued most and hence are believing and acting to lie.
6. Therefore we are false gods.
7. This suggests there is something we should value the most that is not us and that everything should value the most as well.
8. That being is that which out to be valued the most by us and by all (God).

Real argument: I really want God to be real, therefore God exists.

Also, have you heard of narcissists?

[Brian37]

This goes back to the idea from a different thread that value requires a perspective.

I value me the most from my perspective.  I think, from your perspective, you should value yourself the most.  The ideas are not conflicting when you include perspective.

Also, those are such loose interpretations of Worship and God, that you likely lose most of the standard meanings associated with them.

I took life guard classes at a community pool as a young teen. I barely passed, but that is a different story, glad I didn't get a tough job like at a beach I would have sucked at it. But one thing you are taught is if the victim you are trying to save is pulling you under because they are panicking you have to break their grip. No point in two people dying.

But no I don't like the Ayn Rand attitude that you should value yourself the most. Again, even that statement is loaded and subject to point of view. We did evolve to value ourselves yes, for the reasons I stated in prior posts. Where I have a problem is when to far too many, equate that to the economic view "sucks to be you" and "fuck you I got mine". 

I does depend on perspective, so to me it depends and every situation is case by case, not either or, not all or nothing, and in most cases, there is always more than two options. Just like a lifeguard has to assess each victim differently some need more help than others, and the causes of needing help are not always the same.

[henryp]

This goes back to the idea from a different thread that value requires a perspective.

I value me the most from my perspective.  I think, from your perspective, you should value yourself the most.  The ideas are not conflicting when you include perspective.

Also, those are such loose interpretations of Worship and God, that you likely lose most of the standard meanings associated with them.

I took life guard classes at a community pool as a young teen. I barely passed, but that is a different story, glad I didn't get a tough job like at a beach I would have sucked at it. But one thing you are taught is if the victim you are trying to save is pulling you under because they are panicking you have to break their grip. No point in two people dying.

But no I don't like the Ayn Rand attitude that you should value yourself the most. Again, even that statement is loaded and subject to point of view. We did evolve to value ourselves yes, for the reasons I stated in prior posts. Where I have a problem is when to far too many, equate that to the economic view "sucks to be you" and "fuck you I got mine". 

I does depend on perspective, so to me it depends and every situation is case by case, not either or, not all or nothing, and in most cases, there is always more than two options. Just like a lifeguard has to assess each victim differently some need more help than others, and the causes of needing help are not always the same.

In valuing yourself the most, I think many people will prioritize other people's interests firsts, as their empathy is a motivating factor.  But you're right, it's a loaded statement.

I never read Ayn Rand, but I don't have the same feelings towards other people that you do, for sure.

[Cecelia]

1. Worship is what is valued most.
By who?  I don't value worship at all.  

2. Each person tends to value themselves the most.
I value my children more than I value myself.  In fact most people have someone they're willing to die for.  So your premise is already flawed through two points.  This isn't looking good.  

3. No person believes others ought to value them the most.
I'm sure someone does, but I'm not seeing the relevance here.

4. We are in double think where we value ourselves as number one but don't believe others ought to value ourselves the most.
I don't value myself as number one.  Premise failed.

5. Each person committed to valuing themselves the most thus creates a false belief, they don't truly believe they should be valued most and hence are believing and acting to lie.
Do I have to repeat myself?

6. Therefore we are false gods.
This makes absolutely no sense.  Value doesn't equal worship, and worship doesn't equal God, or Donald Trump would be god.

7. This suggests there is something we should value the most that is not us and that everything should value the most as well.
It doesn't suggest it at all.  

8. That being is that which out to be valued the most by us and by all (God).
And even if it did, you do not explain why it has to be god.  Failed premise #8.

8 premises, all of them failed.  Not a good argument for the existence of any god.

[The Valkyrie]

I just beat my false self in a chess match!

Take THAT, false self!

[Cyberman]

I beat myself quite often.

[downbeatplumb]

Deception of ourselves and our knowledge of our false idol proves God.

1. Worship is what is valued most.
2. Each person tends to value themselves the most.
3. No person believes others ought to value them the most.
4. We are in double think where we value ourselves as number one but don't believe others ought to value ourselves the most.
5. Each person committed to valuing themselves the most thus creates a false belief, they don't truly believe they should be valued most and hence are believing and acting to lie.
6. Therefore we are false gods.
7. This suggests there is something we should value the most that is not us and that everything should value the most as well.
8. That being is that which out to be valued the most by us and by all (God).

1. Worship is what is valued most.

Wrong.

2. Each person tends to value themselves the most.

Nope.

3. No person believes others ought to value them the most.

wrong again.

4. We are in double think where we value ourselves as number one but don't believe others ought to value ourselves the most.

You assume this without any sort of evidence to support your position. Its wrong.

5. Each person committed to valuing themselves the most thus creates a false belief, they don't truly believe they should be valued most and hence are believing and acting to lie.

wrong.

6. Therefore we are false gods.

Nope.

7. This suggests there is something we should value the most that is not us and that everything should value the most as well.

No.

8. That being is that which out to be valued the most by us and by all (God).

Everything you just said has no basis in reality. What has happened to you MK ,you used to be rational but you seem to have had all your intelligence removed.