Hi, agnostic here :)

[brewer]

If you can't honestly say you believe in Gods, you're an atheist. I called myself agnostic for nearly a year before I realized that it just wasn't the way it was. If you think you have an intellectually superior position, you're wrong.

Well, hello and welcome to you also.

[Joods]

Hi Erin and welcome.

[Erin27]

It isn't enough just to "question". You have to put your questions through a neutral filter.

I mostly agree with you here, which is why I am trying to start from the beginning and ask lots of people about their different points of view. 

It might be difficult to stay neutral, but I will definitely make a conscious effort to do so when I am dealing with arguments which should be based upon reason alone. 

But separately, I also intend to give due consideration to my gut instinct and my feelings on this. I would like to look into potential scientific explanations for why I might have such feelings (like those supported by the God-helmet experiment) but I will not simply dismiss the possibility that they could mean something beyond that without careful consideration.

[Brian37]

Welcome!

I want you to one good rule of doubting and it's the most important rule of it without it is useless and detrimental: "The first rule about doubting is to know when to stop doubting".

To know when start doubting without knowing when to end cannot but end in confusion.   It's good also to know when to start to doubt something, but it is useless without knowing when to stop.

Without knowing when to stop, you may start to doubt things you should not have even started to doubt!

And if you know when to stop, you will know when to start as well (ie. when conditions of knowing when to stop are not met).

I pray God guides you to himself and his chosen guides!

Thanks for your reply. But how do you know when to stop doubting?

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Hi, and welcome. 

If you know any history behind the word "agnostic" it was a horribly cobbled together prefix and suffix by Thomas Huxley.

"a" is the Greek prefix meaning "without" and "gnostic" meaning "knowledge" when taken as it really should neither tell you what you are "without knowledge" of. So to be used in a real pragmatic way it really should only be treated as qualifying word. 

"Agnostic theist", is basically someone who isn't sure that a god exists and would not give it a specific name or specific attributes, but lean to the "on" position.

An outright theist would be someone who calls themselves a Christian or Muslim Or Jew or Hindu.

The problem with his bad creation of that word is that he never considered time issues, in past claims, current claims and future possible discoveries. 

My current position is "off" . My "God/god/gods/diety/supernatural light switch is currently "off" on all past and current claims. I see no evidence for anything currently claimed much less anything of the past. I am only semantically or "technically" "agnostic" about the future. I am an atheist in "off" now but cant say if something in the future "might" change my mind, although I see that as fleetingly unlikely in my current lucid state.

I call myself an "agnostic atheist". 

Other than that, welcome. Be sure to barbecue kittens, record the NFL without their permission and rip the tags off of your mattress.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm not really sure what to call it then... I'm just undecided I suppose. There's a conflict between what I believe I have logical support for, and what I've been raised to feel is right 

I know they asked me to leave this for another thread, but I get all Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory.

"Penny(knock, knock, knock)Penny,(knock, knock, knock, knock)Penny,(knock, knock, knock).

Oh and as far as doubting, doubting is good, it is what lead humanity out of the dark ages. If our species never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.

Lots of smart people here to learn from. Always read and learn. And never give up when you feel stumped. If theist leads you to a argument you think they have you on, don't say "oh well, they got me", pass it by other atheists and you will find out others can and will pick it apart.

[SnowLucario]

If you can't honestly say you believe in Gods, you're an atheist. I called myself agnostic for nearly a year before I realized that it just wasn't the way it was. If you think you have an intellectually superior position, you're wrong.

Well, hello and welcome to you also.

Thanks, I much appreciate it. I write fanfiction under the same name if you are interested in that.

[brewer]

Well, hello and welcome to you also.

Thanks, I much appreciate it. I write fanfiction under the same name if you are interested in that.

Can I interest you in an "intro" thread?

[Erin27]

If you can't honestly say you believe in Gods, you're an atheist. I called myself agnostic for nearly a year before I realized that it just wasn't the way it was. If you think you have an intellectually superior position, you're wrong.

I think it depends on what you mean by "believe". So far, I haven't come across any rational arguments that undeniably prove the existence of God (I doubt many theists would even claim that much), but neither have I encountered the contrary - arguments which absolutely disprove him.

(Btw I know that lots of atheists would argue that the onus is on theists to prove it etc etc but I'm not trying to get into all of that now, just stating my experience that I haven't found any absolute arguments either way yet)

So if by "believe" you mean "have an absolute argument which is beyond all doubt" then I think I would hardly believe in anything at all! 

I personally would interpret "believe" as a mixture of feeling in your gut that it is true as well as having some reasons why this belief is compatible with your other beliefs. And obviously there is a lot of complicated interaction between those.

My issue is that I feel in my gut that logic is paramount, but I also have this feeling that there is something out there which is difficult to explain. Meanwhile, my head is trying to figure out if any of that makes sense at all.

Does that second gut feeling qualify as belief according to you? If it does then I guess I do believe in God, by that definition. But by my own definition of belief I do not believe in God.

Neither do I (in my sense of belief) believe that I am an atheist, because that belief does not meet my above criteria.

[SnowLucario]

If you can't honestly say you believe in Gods, you're an atheist. I called myself agnostic for nearly a year before I realized that it just wasn't the way it was. If you think you have an intellectually superior position, you're wrong.

I think it depends on what you mean by "believe". So far, I haven't come across any rational arguments that undeniably prove the existence of God (I doubt many theists would even claim that much), but neither have I encountered the contrary - arguments which absolutely disprove him.

(Btw I know that lots of atheists would argue that the onus is on theists to prove it etc etc but I'm not trying to get into all of that now, just stating my experience that I haven't found any absolute arguments either way yet)

So if by "believe" you mean "have an absolute argument which is beyond all doubt" then I think I would hardly believe in anything at all! 

I personally would interpret "believe" as a mixture of feeling in your gut that it is true as well as having some reasons why this belief is compatible with your other beliefs. And obviously there is a lot of complicated interaction between those.

My issue is that I feel in my gut that logic is paramount, but I also have this feeling that there is something out there which is difficult to explain. Meanwhile, my head is trying to figure out if any of that makes sense at all.

Does that second gut feeling qualify as belief according to you? If it does then I guess I do believe in God, by that definition. But by my own definition of belief I do not believe in God.

Neither do I (in my sense of belief) believe that I am an atheist, because that belief does not meet my above criteria.

You can call yourself an agnostic, but that doesn't change the fact that you are an atheist. 

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Thanks, I much appreciate it. I write fanfiction under the same name if you are interested in that.

Can I interest you in an "intro" thread?

Okay. What's that? Sorry, I'm new here.

[brewer]

---

Can I interest you in an "intro" thread?

Okay. What's that? Sorry, I'm new here.

https://atheistforums.org/forum-11.html

[Erin27]

You can call yourself an agnostic, but that doesn't change the fact that you are an atheist. 

You're not engaging with my argument for my position, which is disappointing. At least you provided an opportunity to further explain my position to others on this thread, as I suppose it is an introduction

I suppose we might have to agree to disagree on this one if you are unwilling to justify your claim.