The Trinity and Mary

[Lek]

You said that my statement about my belief coming from personal revelation from God is akin to saying I just "feel' it. Not true.  My faith is based on solid revelation.  I've also researched and considered alternatives, such as three and a half years in this forum.  I've deliberately opened myself to all the questions.  It's not simply a feeling.

What's the difference between personal revelation and feeling?

If I demonstrate something to you and you say "I get it", I personally made a revelation to you. You personally received that revelation.

[The Grand Nudger]

Is that an accurate description of the nature of your relationship with the lord of creation...........

[Harry Nevis]

What's the difference between personal revelation and feeling?

If I demonstrate something to you and you say "I get it", I personally made a revelation to you.  You personally received that revelation.

Is that what god did for you?

[John V]

Still, how would you differentiate your belief from a delusion? We have unshakable testimony of countless people who feel in their heart that the Emperor of Japan is divine, or that Muhammad's revelations in the Koran are true. How do you know you're not delusional? I think you're not aware how easily it is for human brain to be tricked. Fro instance horror movies do this. If I watch a scary movie I may get a feeling that somebody is watching me, although I know I'm alone in the room. That feeling can be really believable and I can imagine if there were people that would encourage me to hod to this feeling and praise me for it I may even see it as a revelation. Especially if my family and other people went trough the same thing.

But if someone has a Y chromosome and a penis but feels like a woman, that's not just a feeling or a delusion, it's incontrovertible proof that the person is a woman.

[Lek]

If I demonstrate something to you and you say "I get it", I personally made a revelation to you.  You personally received that revelation.

Is that what god did for you?

I'll relate my most recent revelation of this type in which God acted through another individual.  I had been struggling with the christian faith and had seriously contemplated leaving it.  My problem was that I had come to think that other religions had their messengers from God, that maybe Jesus was one of numerous messengers and they had their own pathways to God.  I had been praying to God for guidance, specifically about who Jesus was.

At the time that I was going through this, I was sitting in bible study one Sunday morning at my church.  I glanced through the sliding doors and noticed a man in the courtyard who looked like he just stepped out of first century Jerusalem.  He had long hair and a long beard and was dressed in clothes similar to the time.  I didn't really think much of it because my church is located in the inner city and we do ministries for the homeless, drug addicts and mentally ill people who wander around and come to the church for meals and clothing and on Sunday mornings to get some of the goodies we always have out for the church members and anyone else who wants them.  I'm used to seeing all kinds of people.  By the time I got out of bible study he was gone.

Anyway, on Wednesday I was at the same room in a men's group bible study when into the room comes this same guy, dressed in the same outfit.  We invited him to sit at the table with us, but he said he would like to sit by himself and observe.  After the study was over, he walked up to me and asked to talk to me.  He related to me that he lived in a location that is about an eight hour drive from were we were.  God had put it on him to drive to my church and talk to someone, although he didn't know who.  He just relied on God to point him out.  He had left on Sunday unsure that he had met the person he was sent to and decided to come back again.  During the bible study I talked about something and he realized that I was the one he needed to talk to.

I don't even remember most of what we discussed, but what I remember most clearly is that, at first, I wasn't totally sure that he was a christian.  I asked him if he believed that Jesus is God.  He opened a bible and went to this verse:

Isaiah 7:14New Living Translation (NLT)
14 All right then, the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means ‘God is with us’).

He told me that is who Jesus is - God with us.  I realized that Jesus was not simple a messenger from God, but rather God himself in the form of a man. Jesus stated that he is the only way to the Father.  We talked for about an hour, said goodbye and he left, confident that he had accomplished what God had sent him to do.  I know that you will have your own thoughts concerning this event, but I take this as a revelation from God directed just to me. This isn't the only reason that I remain a christian, but rather a communication from God that reaffirms my belief.  Every time I've considered walking away, he's reaffirmed himself to me.  P.S. This guy spoke like an educated individual, owned property, drove a late model van and didn't ask me for money. Oh yeah! This guy did not claim to be Jesus.

[vorlon13]

Guidance about who Jesus was?


Well, Jesus was a Jew, born of a Jewish mother, sent by the Jewish God to the Jews, in fulfillment of Jewish law and prophecy, to preach an apocalyptically revised form of Judaism to Jews, accompanied by his 12 Jewish disciples, in the Jewish lands of the Middle East.

There is a somewhat popular religion about Jesus called Christianity in this era.  As for the religion of Jesus, Apocalyptic Judaism, well for some reason, that never really caught on, despite Jesus' efforts and evident willingness to actually die during the attempt . . . .

[Minimalist]

Jesus was man and God.

Not until a bunch of crooked bishops declared it so in 451.  Your silly god would have been dead for over 4 centuries at that point and the asswipes were still trying to square things away.

And you fall for such nonsense.  Shame on you.

[Fake Messiah]

But if someone has a Y chromosome and a penis but feels like a woman, that's not just a feeling or a delusion, it's incontrovertible proof that the person is a woman.

I'm not saying all feelings are false, but feelings are not enough to declare that a god is real because then why not aliens, unicorns, fairies?

Jesus stated that he is the only way to the Father.  We talked for about an hour, said goodbye and he left, confident that he had accomplished what God had sent him to do.

What?! Jesus didn't reveal you the cure for cancer but made you talk about how he's the only way to the father - what a wasted opportunity.
So did you discuss what do you do about the billions of beings who died as fetuses and infants, mental deficients, and people who lived in the New World before missionaries arrived? I mean that is very immoral and brutal saying of Jesus because for them to accept Jesus would be impossible; so they are condemned to hell because of conditions over which they had no control.
I mean do you see it as a good thing that most people that ever lived and live now are just doomed to hell?

[Harry Nevis]

Still, how would you differentiate your belief from a delusion? We have unshakable testimony of countless people who feel in their heart that the Emperor of Japan is divine, or that Muhammad's revelations in the Koran are true. How do you know you're not delusional? I think you're not aware how easily it is for human brain to be tricked. Fro instance horror movies do this. If I watch a scary movie I may get a feeling that somebody is watching me, although I know I'm alone in the room. That feeling can be really believable and I can imagine if there were people that would encourage me to hod to this feeling and praise me for it I may even see it as a revelation. Especially if my family and other people went trough the same thing.

But if someone has a Y chromosome and a penis but feels like a woman, that's not just a feeling or a delusion, it's incontrovertible proof that the person is a woman.

If you say so....

---

Is that what god did for you?

I'll relate my most recent revelation of this type in which God acted through another individual.  I had been struggling with the christian faith and had seriously contemplated leaving it.  My problem was that I had come to think that other religions had their messengers from God, that maybe Jesus was one of numerous messengers and they had their own pathways to God.  I had been praying to God for guidance, specifically about who Jesus was.

At the time that I was going through this, I was sitting in bible study one Sunday morning at my church.  I glanced through the sliding doors and noticed a man in the courtyard who looked like he just stepped out of first century Jerusalem.  He had long hair and a long beard and was dressed in clothes similar to the time.  I didn't really think much of it because my church is located in the inner city and we do ministries for the homeless, drug addicts and mentally ill people who wander around and come to the church for meals and clothing and on Sunday mornings to get some of the goodies we always have out for the church members and anyone else who wants them.  I'm used to seeing all kinds of people.  By the time I got out of bible study he was gone.

Anyway, on Wednesday I was at the same room in a men's group bible study when into the room comes this same guy, dressed in the same outfit.  We invited him to sit at the table with us, but he said he would like to sit by himself and observe.  After the study was over, he walked up to me and asked to talk to me.  He related to me that he lived in a location that is about an eight hour drive from were we were.  God had put it on him to drive to my church and talk to someone, although he didn't know who.  He just relied on God to point him out.  He had left on Sunday unsure that he had met the person he was sent to and decided to come back again.  During the bible study I talked about something and he realized that I was the one he needed to talk to.

I don't even remember most of what we discussed, but what I remember most clearly is that, at first, I wasn't totally sure that he was a christian.  I asked him if he believed that Jesus is God.  He opened a bible and went to this verse:

Isaiah 7:14New Living Translation (NLT)
14 All right then, the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means ‘God is with us’).

He told me that is who Jesus is - God with us.  I realized that Jesus was not simple a messenger from God, but rather God himself in the form of a man. Jesus stated that he is the only way to the Father.  We talked for about an hour, said goodbye and he left, confident that he had accomplished what God had sent him to do.  I know that you will have your own thoughts concerning this event, but I take this as a revelation from God directed just to me. This isn't the only reason that I remain a christian, but rather a communication from God that reaffirms my belief.  Every time I've considered walking away, he's reaffirmed himself to me.  P.S. This guy spoke like an educated individual, owned property, drove a late model van and didn't ask me for money. Oh yeah! This guy did not claim to be Jesus.

Pretty mundane for a divine revelation.

[Lek]

Pretty mundane for a divine revelation.

Sure. It happens every day.