How Can I Get Saved?

[Rhondazvous]

Christian apologist say that the bible is not a science tome or a history book. Thus all that really matter are the salvific passages. Believe them and leave the rest alone.

The problem with that is the bible is just as equivocal about salvation as anything else. Today, so-called evangelical Christians go with Paul and ignore or dismiss all other salvific biblical writings.

But suppose Paul is wrong and the others are right? Suppose you get to the pearly gates and have to explain why you thought Paul knew more about salvation than Jesus himself?

Which of the following passages tells us what we really need to do to be saved.

7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

But Jesus added to this requirement

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17…but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I hear Christians arguing that they were still under the old covenant. The speaker in Micah was too and Paul precludes separate means of salvation under the law for the Jews.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Paul may have believed in Christ, but he didn’t believe Christ. To the best of my knowledge Jews are flesh, so why would Jesus tell them they could be saved by keeping the commandments?

[Silver]

First, put yourself in danger.

[brewer]

Become a bank account. But only if you have the interest.

[Neo-Scholastic]

If you are intent on finding contradictions then you probably won't understand how these can work together.

[Rhondazvous]

If you are intent on finding contradictions then you probably won't understand how these can work together.

I was sitting on the beach when it occurred to me that if I don't go there looking for sand, I can pretend it's not there.

[Minimalist]

If you are intent on finding contradictions then you probably won't understand how these can work together.

And if you are finding consistency you probably need to pull your head out of your ass.

[Aliza]

Christian apologist say that the bible is not a science tome or a history book. Thus all that really matter are the salvific passages. Believe them and leave the rest alone.

The problem with that is the bible is just as equivocal about salvation as anything else. Today, so-called evangelical Christians go with Paul and ignore or dismiss all other salvific biblical writings.

But suppose Paul is wrong and the others are right? Suppose you get to the pearly gates and have to explain why you thought Paul knew more about salvation than Jesus himself?

Which of the following passages tells us what we really need to do to be saved.

7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

But Jesus added to this requirement

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17…but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I hear Christians arguing that they were still under the old covenant.  The speaker in Micah was too and Paul precludes separate means of salvation under the law for the Jews.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Paul may have believed in Christ, but he didn’t believe Christ.  To the best of my knowledge Jews are flesh, so why would Jesus tell them they could be saved by keeping the commandments?

I have never personally heard a Christian apologist say that the bible is not a science or history book, but that sounds like a step in the right direction.

Let me address the matter of salvation, though because Christianity claims to be a natural progression of Judaism, so their theology should reflect Jewish ideas. Should I continue to post here, and if you read my posts, you may notice that I will convey a consistent message that Christianity is in fact not based on Judaism and that this fault disqualifies Christianity’s message entirely.
 
Micah 6 -9 (Judaica Press) 6 With what shall I come before the Lord, bow before the Most High God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, with yearling calves? 7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, with myriad streams of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has told you, O man, what is good, and what the Lord demands of you; but to do justice, to love loving-kindness, and to walk discreetly with your God.

In short, Micah is asking, “Hey, what do I have to do to make things right after I fuck up? Do I have to go nuts and sacrifice a bunch of stuff and give you lots of expensive oil?” and G-d basically replying, “Just keep the commandments, and everything will be fine.”

Then according to your quote, Matthew says that Jesus said:

Matthew 19:16, 17b Wrote:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17…but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 
First of all, where in Micah does it say anything about an eternal life? This concept of an eternal soul which will go to heaven or hell and that judgement of this destiny is dependent on what you think in your head is an entirely Christian concept, not in any way rooted in Judaism. This is a subtle little bait and switch game that the Christians are playing here. Christians assume that they have an eternal soul that will end up in heaven or hell based on the things they believe, so when they look at the Hebrew Bible, they’re doing it through Christian-tinted glasses.

Galatians 2:16 Wrote: Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 
Here, the NT authors say that keeping the law isn’t good enough, but didn’t Micah clear that up by saying that keeping the law is exactly what the Jewish people have to do?
 
Then we look back on the commandments and we see in Deuteronomy 4:2 that G-d tells the Jewish people not to add or subtract to these commandments. So how exactly does that work to the Christians? G-d tells the Jews over and over and over to stick to the commandments and all will be fine, and never to change the commandments, and that the requirements are forever…. And then the Christians come along and say, “Just kidding! We’re going to do away with all that crazy Jew stuff and just think things in our heads instead. -Oh, and if you don't think the same things that I think, you're going to this new place that I heard about from the Pagans called hell, and you're going there for all eternity! Hugs and kisses! Enjoy!”
 
The concept of an eternal soul, heaven and hell, and faith over good actions is entirely Christian and has no foundation in Judaism. Christians need to account for these discrepancies if their story –that they are hard selling to every person on earth-- is to have any credibility at all.
 
Oh, and because Jesus and Paul told the Jewish people to worship a foreign god (Jesus), according to the Torah, which they allegedly knew all about, that makes them both filthy, dirty sinners. 

[Cyberman]

Hit ctrl-s. Command on a Mac.

[J a c k]

If you are intent on finding contradictions then you probably won't understand how these can work together.

I was sitting on the beach when it occurred to me that if I don't go there looking for sand, I can pretend it's not there.

[Rhondazvous]

I have never personally heard a Christian apologist say that the bible is not a science or history book, but that sounds like a step in the right direction.

Let me address the matter of salvation, though because Christianity claims to be a natural progression of Judaism, so their theology should reflect Jewish ideas. Should I continue to post here, and if you read my posts, you may notice that I will convey a consistent message that Christianity is in fact not based on Judaism and that this fault disqualifies Christianity’s message entirely.
 
Micah 6 -9 (Judaica Press) 6 With what shall I come before the Lord, bow before the Most High God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, with yearling calves? 7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, with myriad streams of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has told you, O man, what is good, and what the Lord demands of you; but to do justice, to love loving-kindness, and to walk discreetly with your God.

In short, Micah is asking, “Hey, what do I have to do to make things right after I fuck up? Do I have to go nuts and sacrifice a bunch of stuff and give you lots of expensive oil?” and G-d basically replying, “Just keep the commandments, and everything will be fine.”

Then according to your quote, Matthew says that Jesus said:

Matthew 19:16, 17b Wrote:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17…but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 
First of all, where in Micah does it say anything about an eternal life? This concept of an eternal soul which will go to heaven or hell and that judgement of this destiny is dependent on what you think in your head is an entirely Christian concept, not in any way rooted in Judaism. This is a subtle little bait and switch game that the Christians are playing here. Christians assume that they have an eternal soul that will end up in heaven or hell based on the things they believe, so when they look at the Hebrew Bible, they’re doing it through Christian-tinted glasses.

Galatians 2:16 Wrote: Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 
Here, the NT authors say that keeping the law isn’t good enough, but didn’t Micah clear that up by saying that keeping the law is exactly what the Jewish people have to do?
 
Then we look back on the commandments and we see in Deuteronomy 4:2 that G-d tells the Jewish people not to add or subtract to these commandments. So how exactly does that work to the Christians? G-d tells the Jews over and over and over to stick to the commandments and all will be fine, and never to change the commandments, and that the requirements are forever…. And then the Christians come along and say, “Just kidding! We’re going to do away with all that crazy Jew stuff and just think things in our heads instead. -Oh, and if you don't think the same things that I think, you're going to this new place that I heard about from the Pagans called hell, and you're going there for all eternity! Hugs and kisses! Enjoy!”
 
The concept of an eternal soul, heaven and hell, and faith over good actions is entirely Christian and has no foundation in Judaism. Christians need to account for these discrepancies if their story –that they are hard selling to every person on earth-- is to have any credibility at all.
 
Oh, and because Jesus and Paul told the Jewish people to worship a foreign god (Jesus), according to the Torah, which they allegedly knew all about, that makes them both filthy, dirty sinners. 

Yes, somebody said Matthew said Jesus said...

I agree with you and need to take what you’re saying a step further.

The concept of eternal life, heaven, hell, etc. did come from the pagans but not directly to the Christians. After the Jews were exiled in Babylon, they gradually moved toward Apocalyptic Judaism Jesus was an apocalyptic Jew. That’s why Mary and Martha already knew about the resurrection and told Jesus they would see their brother Lazarus.

Christianity came from Paul not Jesus. And by the time Constantine came along it became clear the apocalypse wasn’t as imminent as they had thought, so they needed a new Christian theology. What we have today is an amalgamation of trying to shoehorn Christianity into two millennia worth of social and political changes. It’s a mess.