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RE: Worship and Emotion
June 25, 2017 at 6:59 am
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2017 at 7:00 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I'm afraid you'll have to rephrase. I don't speak devotional, Atlas. Are you asking what led a person to the argument from design?
Usually...another believer, lol.
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RE: Worship and Emotion
June 25, 2017 at 7:29 am
(June 25, 2017 at 6:57 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: (June 25, 2017 at 6:50 am)Khemikal Wrote: Emotions didn't open the door, in your example. An argument did (must have been a flimsy door  ) . This is what astreja, I think, was referring to. In your example, a person began with an idea, Tinkergod - and then emotionally invested in it.
What would lead a person to seek the truth, but "a love" for the truth ?
People who are serious about seeking truths would be better served by a university than a mosque.
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RE: Worship and Emotion
June 25, 2017 at 7:38 am
Correct, but it's already too late when they already know the truth and any other teachings just reinforce it.
And it's perfectly acceptable to discard any evil unsupporting facts in the quest for the truth which you already know.
(circular reasoning 101)
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Know God, Know fear.
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RE: Worship and Emotion
June 25, 2017 at 5:19 pm
(June 25, 2017 at 6:41 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Some believe because emotions were the kick; the door opener. I think a perfect example would be an argument from design that led a thinker to get attached to an abstract figure in their head; then completed it with comparing different religions and picking the one more suitable to his/her previous thoughts.
You can strengthen the example more if we imagined the thinker's own emotions towards the design.
I can see emotions having a role in the early phase, when someone looks at something beautiful and is filled with a sense of awe, but that isn't necessarily directed to worship until that person conceives of a designer and then starts thinking about what that designer might be like.
The reason I see this as two separate processes is that there are many people who experience a sense of awe without it leading to religious belief. For example, I consider total solar eclipses to be utterly amazing, but attributing them to a god is IMO simply not necessary and would clutter up the experience.
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RE: Worship and Emotion
June 26, 2017 at 2:51 am
(June 25, 2017 at 5:19 pm)Astreja Wrote: (June 25, 2017 at 6:41 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Some believe because emotions were the kick; the door opener. I think a perfect example would be an argument from design that led a thinker to get attached to an abstract figure in their head; then completed it with comparing different religions and picking the one more suitable to his/her previous thoughts.
You can strengthen the example more if we imagined the thinker's own emotions towards the design.
I can see emotions having a role in the early phase, when someone looks at something beautiful and is filled with a sense of awe, but that isn't necessarily directed to worship until that person conceives of a designer and then starts thinking about what that designer might be like.
The reason I see this as two separate processes is that there are many people who experience a sense of awe without it leading to religious belief. For example, I consider total solar eclipses to be utterly amazing, but attributing them to a god is IMO simply not necessary and would clutter up the experience.
If I can call it "motivation".
The human mind seems very "recursive" in its beliefs. Seeking the "source" of things seems more of a familiar rule we use to in our daily life. Like light leads to an illumination source; sound of talking leads to people.
Eclipses scare the hell out of me! That type of irreplaceable fear and amusement.
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RE: Worship and Emotion
June 26, 2017 at 9:41 am
(June 23, 2017 at 1:35 pm)Astreja Wrote: I was pondering the phenomenon of humans worshipping gods, and this question occurred to me: What is worship, anyway?
My initial thoughts: It's an attempt to consistently cultivate specific emotions (e.g. awe, fear, love) through the use of ritual cues such as liturgy, actions and environment. What say you?
First, worship is an emotion by definition. So, ceremony or liturgy is not worship in itself--it is the framework that focuses the previously held belief that is the source of the emotion. If you are simply going through the motions and do not believe them/lack the emotion, it is not worship.
The reasons for it entirely depends on your relationship to the object of your worship. If you worship a stone statue, it is most likely that you believed someone else's explanation on what the particular stone statue is or represents. If you worship some nebulous great spirit/nature it may likely be a result of your observations/appreciation of the natural world and our connection to it. If you worship the God of the Bible, it may be from personal experience. Or it may be a combination of all three present in varying levels from person to person.
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RE: Worship and Emotion
June 26, 2017 at 9:43 am
Worship can be a sort of high, and it can be addictive. Because of the emotions evoked, it can feel genuine on it's face...if it didn't feel genuine, it wouldn't be the same rush.
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RE: Worship and Emotion
June 26, 2017 at 1:21 pm
(June 26, 2017 at 9:41 am)SteveII Wrote: First, worship is an emotion by definition. So, ceremony or liturgy is not worship in itself--it is the framework that focuses the previously held belief that is the source of the emotion. If you are simply going through the motions and do not believe them/lack the emotion, it is not worship.
I've never heard that particular definition of worship. This isn't one of those "No True Scotsman Worship" deals, is it? 
Otherwise I would agree with your post, and acknowledge that worship without an emotional connection appears to be of no particular personal value (although there is demonstrable social value in playing along, singing and genuflecting along with one's neighbours even in the absence of belief).
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RE: Worship and Emotion
June 26, 2017 at 9:03 pm
Worship is probably one of those fluid definitions like 'god', 'spiritual' and any other practically meaningless concept connected to that whole mess.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
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There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
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RE: Worship and Emotion
June 30, 2017 at 4:18 am
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2017 at 4:24 am by KerimF.)
(June 23, 2017 at 1:35 pm)Astreja Wrote: I was pondering the phenomenon of humans worshipping gods, and this question occurred to me: What is worship, anyway?
My initial thoughts: It's an attempt to consistently cultivate specific emotions (e.g. awe, fear, love) through the use of ritual cues such as liturgy, actions and environment. What say you?
I am afraid that during a worship ritual (or prayer), accepting being submitted totally to a certain being (no matter if real or not) let the worshipper feels a special pleasant sensation (though in mind) as it is the case when a person submits totally and freely to another one (he/she trusts) sexually, even prior of any act.
Could I blame someone for having pleasant times with a heavenly or earthly being
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