Considering atheism [Currently Christian]

[Whateverist]

Deidre, I'm confused. If atheism is a natural conclusion then presumably for you to arrive at your present position you must be using a more potent natural conclusion. What happened?

Well, when I look back over the past five years of going from belief to disbelief to belief (leaving out a lot of details of course) I would say that emotionally, I wasn't "comfortable" as an atheist and that struggle between my mind and emotions started when my grandmother became ill a few years ago and then passed away. Maybe the main delineating line between belief and lack of belief comes in the form of wanting (or needing) to believe vs. being comfortable with the idea that no god exists. My mind and heart never "agreed" when I was an atheist. :/

May I just say how appropriately humble you are regarding your faith.  It sounds like you could slide right back into disbelief if the emotional grounds for your discomfort are ever resolved.  We all have to trust our selves and our process.  You exemplify this.

[The Grand Nudger]

Wish there were a few billion more of deidre and a few billion less frothy believers. 

While I've never been a believer, the faithful disappoint me in their beliefs, in their lack of respect for themselves, others, -or- their beliefs and the stories around which they are formed. The subject is obviously meaningful regardless of whether or not any of it is true in the sense that some given believer thinks it is. With such a depth and breadth and quality of tradition to be had....why we get the gay haters and the dominionists and the door to door assholes positively confounds me.

[*Deidre*]

Well, when I look back over the past five years of going from belief to disbelief to belief (leaving out a lot of details of course) I would say that emotionally, I wasn't "comfortable" as an atheist and that struggle between my mind and emotions started when my grandmother became ill a few years ago and then passed away. Maybe the main delineating line between belief and lack of belief comes in the form of wanting (or needing) to believe vs. being comfortable with the idea that no god exists. My mind and heart never "agreed" when I was an atheist. :/

May I just say how appropriately humble you are regarding your faith.  It sounds like you could slide right back into disbelief if the emotional grounds for your discomfort are ever resolved.  We all have to trust our selves and our process.  You exemplify this.

You're gonna make me cry

There's a reason I return to this site, over and over. Not just because some of you are mad cool lol but my mind likes it here.

---

Wish there were a few billion more of deidre and a few billion less frothy believers. 

While I've never been a believer, the faithful disappoint me in their beliefs, in their lack of respect for themselves -or- their beliefs or the stories upon which they are formed.

I think that much of that comes from organized religion and indoctrination. (and fear) 
When you see people like that, they may be struggling more than you know. :/

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh I;m sure..it's just a continuous "you read -this-....and came to -that-?" wtf moment - for me.  You know?

[*Deidre*]

Oh I;m sure..it's just a continuous  "you read -this-....and came to -that-?" wtf moment - for me.  You know?

I just realized who you are lol looking at your name change.  
And yes, probably. I will say that I envy people who grew up without any religious parenting or guidance whatsoever because what we are taught as kids no matter how hard we try, there's always a slight residue left over. (when it comes to the negative stuff)

[CWoods]

For the past two years, I have been dating an atheist fellow. (odd isn't it?)

And this is because he is somehow attractive. 
He is the one who has been introducing me to memes and other content about atheism.
I have been honestly trying to see his side, as he attended church with me once. (although he says he despises religion/church)

I don't think you can talk yourself into becoming an atheist.  Most people are indoctrinated into their family's religion from a young age. Psychologists have proven that it is nearly impossible to to change someone's mind about a long-held belief, especially if it has an emotional element.  So I am guessing it would be very difficult, even to talk yourself out of Christianity.

But if you are willing to try, you might ask yourself what kind of a Christian you are. Do you attend church every week?  Do you pray daily?  Are you afraid you will end up in hell, if you reject religion?  Do you like to attend church for the feeling of belonging you get there? Do you want to change to please your boyfriend or yourself?  Are you prepared for the wrath of family and friends if you reject their religion? What if you eventually accept that Christianity is not for you and you become an atheist?  What will happen if you and your boyfriend break up?  Will you return to Christianity?  

Most of the atheists I know grew up with one or both parents either being atheists, agnostics, or perhaps giving lip service to being religious, but religion played almost no part in their daily lives. 

There are, however, people like me, who grew up in highly-religious homes.  

Some of them rebelled against extremely strict family rules. Some had been abused.  As an example: Fred Phelps, whose church was mainly made up of family members & has been deemed a hate group (look him up.) He tried to beat submission into his wife and children.  One of his sons is now an atheist and many other members of his family left the church, although they may still consider themselves Christians.

I, on the other hand came from a strict religious family, but not to the extreme.  At about age 8 my parents decided we would read a chapter of the Bible before dinner every evening, starting at Genesis and ending with Revelation. I'm sure at age 8 I didn't understand everything in the Bible, but I was reading at an 8th grade level at that time, so I could understand the words, but not necessarily the meanings.  (But of course, "meanings'" are interpretations and vary among different religious sects.  Bible scholars interpret the Bible differently, too.) 

By the time I was 12, I was reading at a college level. As we read, I asked questions which my parents tried to explain with the "god works in mysterious ways" excuse.  Or they got angry that I was questioning the "word of god."  At first, little doubts started to twirl around in my head.  As time went on, I could no longer accept many of the things we read.  Some seemed to defy the laws of nature.  Some seemed awfully cruel for an "all-loving god" who was supposed to be "our father." Some seemed just plain silly and lots of passages contradicted other passages.  I started to realize that if I couldn't believe the Bible, which was supposed to be the true word of god, I couldn't be a Christian.

By the time I was in college, I knew I was an atheist, but afraid to admit it to anyone.  (This was in the mid 1960s.)

This is a very short and easily readable book which is a report on a study conducted on atheism in the US and Canada: "Atheists, A Groundbreaking Study of America's Nonbelievers" (by Bruce Hunsberger and Bob Altemeyer, 2006)  Although most people have many reasons for rejecting religion (if they grew up in a religious home) the reason most often mentioned was reading the Bible.

In college I started to read books such as Bertrand Russell's "Why I am Not a Christian." I joined a local atheist group and learned a lot from others.

Now in my 70s, I still read a lot about religious and atheism.  

I would suggest reading some books by Bart Erhman and Frank Schaeffer. The reason I recommend them, is that they were both highly religious and are now unbelievers, so you might be able to relate to them more than to someone who grew up in an atheist home. (If you are close to a large library, you may be able to find their books or audio versions. You may find used ones on amazon.)  You can look up both authors, online.  

Erhman is a Biblical scholar who writes a lot about how the Bible was written (which he no longer believes is the inspired work of god.)  Frank's books are about growing up with evangelical parents (who actually were rather open-minded compared to many of today's evangelicals.) His books are sometimes amusing.  

You might also get on the Freedom From Religion Foundation's website to take a couple of short quizzes about the Bible and about the U.S. being a "Christian Nation."  The FFRF also has a weekly podcast in which they discuss atheism, religious intrusion into government, and usually have an interesting guest.  The program is hosted by Dan Barker (former evangelical minister) and his wife, Annie Laurie Gaylor (who grew up in an atheist home.)

As I said, it's difficult to change your mind about a belief, but if you are willing to give it a go, you need to take the time to learn about your own religion and why some people have rejected it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh I;m sure..it's just a continuous  "you read -this-....and came to -that-?" wtf moment - for me.  You know?

I just realized who you are lol looking at your name change.  
And yes, probably. I will say that I envy people who grew up without any religious parenting or guidance whatsoever because what we are taught as kids no matter how hard we try, there's always a slight residue left over. (when it comes to the negative stuff)

Oh, my mom is a -complete- wooster...crystal healing and pagan gods, reads the cards..the whole bit.  She burns twigs to purge ghosts, lol.  My family is a mix of catholics, baptists, and literal bible salesman.  I went to a private school operated by the church.  I can draw down the godhead in a ritual circle, perform sympathetic magic, plumb the catechism, and recite the bible from memory.  My power went out last night in the big storm..and I spent two hours recounting norse creation myths and danish hero legends to my kids to keep them entertained. I sing hymns beautifully and with conviction.

I got alot of religious guidance.  

It just never took..or it took so well in whole that I could very accurately see that all of these different traditions..purportedly about gods..were about human beings.  I suppose it helped that while my family had plenty of religion they lacked the compulsion to religion urge.  

Or, at least..that's what I think happened....could have been in the milk.  There was alot of fluoride in the water too...maybe, in addition to making frogs gay it turns people into atheists?  

[*Deidre*]

I just realized who you are lol looking at your name change.  
And yes, probably. I will say that I envy people who grew up without any religious parenting or guidance whatsoever because what we are taught as kids no matter how hard we try, there's always a slight residue left over. (when it comes to the negative stuff)

Oh, my mom is a -complete- wooster...crystal healing and pagan gods, reads the cards..the whole bit.  She burns twigs to purge ghosts, lol.  My family is a mix of catholics, baptists, and literal bible salesman.  I went to a private school operated by the church.  I can draw down the godhead in a ritual circle, perform sympathetic magic, plumb the catechism, and recite the bible from memory.  My power went out last night in the big storm..and I spent two hours recounting norse creation myths and danish hero legends to my kids to keep them entertained.  I sing hymns beautifully and with conviction.

I got alot of religious guidance.  

It just never took..or it took so well in whole that I could very accurately see that all of these different traditions..purportedly about gods..were about human beings.  I suppose it helped that while my family had plenty of religion they lacked the compulsion to religion urge.  

Or, at least..that's what I think happened....could have been in the milk.  There was alot of fluoride in the water too...maybe, in addition to making frogs gay it turns people into atheists?  

lol you're funny 

I fear that I'm in that crossroads again...or maybe I'm always here, when it comes to faith. Like I believe in a god, but then I wonder where the actual motivation for that belief is coming from. Most days, I just go through life, but when I stop to reflect and discuss it, I realize that is my issue. I thought that I had a spiritual experience almost two years ago that led me back to belief, but then I wonder, am I manufacturing the situation to seem like it was spiritual? Being spiritual isn't a bad thing, imo. No one knows for sure if there exists a deity or not, and there are days, that I get comfort from belief. But, then there are days, when there's no comfort at all, and I wonder if I'm forcing belief.

Thanks for listening, it's helpful for me to get this out here.

[Lek]

For the past two years, I have been dating an atheist fellow. (odd isn't it?)

And this is because he is somehow attractive. 
He is the one who has been introducing me to memes and other content about atheism.
I have been honestly trying to see his side, as he attended church with me once. (although he says he despises religion/church)

I totally accept science as a method of discovering truth, but it can only test things that fall under natural law. As such, it's not equipped to make judgments on anything supernatural. Science also doesn't answer many of the "whys" that humanity considers. Science is great, but if you rely only on science for all your answers, you're living in a box. Any thing that doesn't fit into the natural criteria is not considered. Anyway, as far as examining the compatibility of science and faith, the website below is excellent and you ought to check it out.

http://biologos.org/about-us/

[Minimalist]

I've fucked Christian men in the ass, Christian men have fucked me in the ass, I have given Christian men blow jobs, and Christian men have given me blow jobs . . .

You are so ecumenical, V!