Give what you get?

[JackRussell]

That seems like a pretty shallow, superficial and stunted way to go thru life. Smells of passive aggressive.

So how do you react when someone belittles you or betrays you, in some way? I don't believe in revenge but do you remain friends with people who don't treat you well?

Great and difficult question. It's why I hate these moral absolutionists.

I would like to tell you a very personal story, but don't feel comfortable sharing it right now.

All I will say is that I get betrayal and I know how much it hurts.

I don't pretend to understand your situation, nor would I presume. Mine, I have moved on and I try to see the good that eventually came from it.

EDIT: Meant to say absolutists

[*Deidre*]

Who puts any thought into this, legit question.  How often does anyone find themselves doing a sort of mental calculus of kindness?

People who are taken advantage of, that's who. If you've never been taken advantage of when you've shown kindness to mean people, congratulations.

---

So how do you react when someone belittles you or betrays you, in some way? I don't believe in revenge but do you remain friends with people who don't treat you well?

That is on a case by case basis. I may have done something and belittling/betraying me may have seemed or was justified to them. I'd have to go back and reassess the situation and their motives/actions. If I also find it justified or at least understandable then meh, I let it go (forgive?). If I don't, then I'll be on the look out for their continuing unacceptable behavior. If due to a misunderstanding and I think we can work things out then that's the path. If I find it completely unacceptable and there is no change, I'll probably move on. 

But the tit for tat, I'll only like you if you like me first, you didn't pick me up when you said so next time is pay back, I asked for Coke and you brought me 7UP so that goes on the list for the next opportunity, on and on and on, is passive aggressive manipulation. I could probably tolerate the person but they'll never make it into the friend zone. At some point there has to be some unconditional giving-forgiving/emotional connection.

But friendships can't be one-sided lest they stop being friendships.

[brewer]

Who puts any thought into this, legit question.  How often does anyone find themselves doing a sort of mental calculus of kindness?

People who are taken advantage of, that's who. If you've never been taken advantage of when you've shown kindness to mean people, congratulations.

Everybody gets taken advantage of at some time or another.

[*Deidre*]

People who are taken advantage of, that's who. If you've never been taken advantage of when you've shown kindness to mean people, congratulations.

Everybody gets taken advantage of at some time or another.

That's true but I'm answering his question. This is the philosophy section, so we can ponder whatever we like.

[brewer]

But friendships can't be one-sided lest they stop being friendships.

I agree. Does tit for tat correct one sided? It might, but not in my world.

[Thumpalumpacus]

People who are taken advantage of, that's who. If you've never been taken advantage of when you've shown kindness to mean people, congratulations.

Everybody gets taken advantage of at some time or another.

And for family, friends, and lovers, I will offer that up, because I like doing things for the people I love. Reciprocity is appreciated ... but if it is rarely or never offered, I will dial back a little.

[*Deidre*]

But friendships can't be one-sided lest they stop being friendships.

I agree. Does tit for tat correct one sided? It might, but not in my world.

It doesn't. This seems to work for my friend, but I've never really tried it. But, I don't return kindness for meanness...I return silence. The main flaw in my friend's give what you get theory, is that I do think we gain something within ourselves, a strength or whatever, by taking the higher road. Taking the high road doesn't mean though that we have to sacrifice our integrity to be someone's friend, it rather means not stooping to someone else's level. Like when I see ad homs fly on here for example, I don't think it's necessary to zing someone back in reply. So, giving what you get in those scenarios really doesn't bridge gaps in dissenting discussions, imo.

---

Everybody gets taken advantage of at some time or another.

And for family, friends, and lovers, I will offer that up, because I like doing things for the people I love. Reciprocity is appreciated ... but if it is rarely or never offered, I will dial back a little.

I totally agree with this. Is it wrong to 'dial it back?' I don't think it is. And if someone is honestly not a friend and is really just a user, then it's better imo to recognize the situation for what it is.

[JackRussell]

This shit ain't easy. Stay true to yourself and forgive if you can. Most importantly stay strong and healthy yourself.

Be true to yourself, limit harm to others and move on.

Easy to say post facto, but make sure you are safe, nought wrong with that.

Good luck and love from afar.

[brewer]

I agree. Does tit for tat correct one sided? It might, but not in my world.

It doesn't. This seems to work for my friend, but I've never really tried it. But, I don't return kindness for meanness...I return silence. The main flaw in my friend's give what you get theory, is that I do think we gain something within ourselves, a strength or whatever, by taking the higher road. Taking the high road doesn't mean though that we have to sacrifice our integrity to be someone's friend, it rather means not stooping to someone else's level. Like when I see ad homs fly on here for example, I don't think it's necessary to zing someone back in reply. So, giving what you get in those scenarios really doesn't bridge gaps in dissenting discussions, imo.

bold mine

That's a passive position, one I don't agree with either. 

The high road is good, unless you have vertigo.

Instead of silence try sarcasm! (that was really mean, good job, you must be so proud)

[*Deidre*]

It doesn't. This seems to work for my friend, but I've never really tried it. But, I don't return kindness for meanness...I return silence. The main flaw in my friend's give what you get theory, is that I do think we gain something within ourselves, a strength or whatever, by taking the higher road. Taking the high road doesn't mean though that we have to sacrifice our integrity to be someone's friend, it rather means not stooping to someone else's level. Like when I see ad homs fly on here for example, I don't think it's necessary to zing someone back in reply. So, giving what you get in those scenarios really doesn't bridge gaps in dissenting discussions, imo.

bold mine

That's a passive position, one I don't agree with either. 

The high road is good, unless you have vertigo.

Instead of silence try sarcasm! (that was really mean, good job, you must be so proud)

If you have to sacrifice your integrity to keep a friend, is that really worth it? I don't follow why you think that's a passive position. 

lol @ sarcasm. Maybe I'll try that.