The undeniable miracle at Fatima

[pabsta]

As someone who doesn't appear to believe in the incorruptibles, and given this phenomenon only occurs with devout Catholics, the question you should be asking yourself is how even a single incorrupt body could exist. It completely defies science no matter who's incorrupt body we are speaking about. They are on display all over Europe for you to go see. I am not the one having a problem understanding and believing in them, so it is up to you to go and see them. Next time you schedule a vacation, make it in Europe so you can go see them.

As for differentiating between ordinary and extraordinary claims, that is relative. Atheists seem to categorize many things as extraordinary that others wouldn't. Again, let's assume for the moment that the sun never bobbed up and down in the sky. The question then becomes, why did thousands of people submit testimonies saying they think it did?

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Yes, that would be a miracle too. But given this phenomena only happens to devout Catholics, you need to ask yourself why. Not a single person in this forum has an answer to that and that's as much.

Oh em gee...

You really are this fucking stupid. 

This is great... I love how you keep coming back to this thread to prove your sheer stupidity. 

Please... entertain us some more. You continually prove to everyone here how religion poisons everything and how the brainwashed think.

Brilliant, convincing reply. Just goes to show that you don't have an answer either and that you're upset about it.

[Minimalist]

Care to enlighten me?

I bet the answer is going to be 'jesus' or some such shit.

[Harry Nevis]

They were all believers.  Believers lie about their faith all the time.

On the contrary, they were not all believers. The book, "Meet the Witnesses" has a chapter dedicated to the nonbelievers who were at the site of the miracle and later admitted they were believers. It is also mentioned in random places throughout the rest of the book as well. Try getting a book.

Try using your head, asshole.  A book written by a believer about believers.  Believers lie all the time. If they later admitted to being believers, then they must have been lying when they said they were.

[pabsta]

You must be joking. If you aren't, you obviously haven't been reading the posts in this thread.

In July 2017 the 3 children publicly foretold that a lady told them she would perform a miracle 3 months later on October 13, at 12 noon at the cova, so that "the people would believe" (referring to believing the Catholic message she was giving to the children during that 6-month span). 70,000 people show up and there just HAPPENS to be a "local atmospheric phenomenon" at the SAME time, and that the SAME location, only visible in a 20 mile radius? Give me a break. Also, it was not a hot day, it was a day where it had been pouring rain all day. Also, if you read the testimonials, everyone says they know of no one who didn't see anything.

What a lame skeptical consensus.

bold mine

October 2017 hasn't happened yet. 

Nice try though.

Obviously a typo.  I meant 1917.

[pocaracas]

Dude, we've established 30 to 40 thousand. not 70 thousand! Stop using that exaggerated number.

Also, you've clearly never been in Portugal in October.... It's still Summer time, worth going to the beach to catch some rays.... if only you don't have to be stuck in some office.
If it rains, the humidity levels spike and it gets almost tropical.

Hey Poca - 

Does it ever snow where you live? Just curious.

I saw snowing once in Lisbon. A brief piss poor snow that melted as soon as it touched the ground...
Towards the north, there is a mountain range... It snows there every year, and it also occasionally snows to the interior, near Spain. Feel free to come visit in the winter!

[Edwardo Piet]

It is undeniable.


To numbskulls.

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I'm sad

[Astreja]

As someone who doesn't appear to believe in the incorruptibles, and given this phenomenon only occurs with devout Catholics, the question you should be asking yourself is how even a single incorrupt body could exist.

That is a question for science, not religion.  By not doing what I asked you to do -- that is, to set up a proper examination where religious bias cannot interfere -- you are making it rather difficult to properly answer that question.

It completely defies science no matter who's incorrupt body we are speaking about. They are on display all over Europe for you to go see.

 
No, it does not "completely [defy] science."  It completely avoids science.  I also have no interest in looking at bodies on display unless it's for the purpose of being an observer at a medical/biochemical experiment on those bodies, and somehow I doubt the custodians of the bodies would permit that to happen.

There are also "incorruptible bodies" in Buddhism, by the way.  Whatever they really are, they aren't unique to Catholicism.  Get over yourselves.

[Harry Nevis]

Oh em gee...

You really are this fucking stupid. 

This is great... I love how you keep coming back to this thread to prove your sheer stupidity. 

Please... entertain us some more. You continually prove to everyone here how religion poisons everything and how the brainwashed think.

Brilliant, convincing reply. Just goes to show that you don't have an answer either and that you're upset about it.

We don't NEED an answer.  You apparently do.  And you're the one ranting and calling names.  Fuck off.

[Minimalist]

I'm tired of this blabbering jesus freak.

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/real_secrets_of_fatima

Precisely what happened at Fatima has been the subject of much controversy. Church authorities made inquiries, collected eyewitness testimony, and declared the events worthy of belief as a miracle (Zimdars-Swartz 1991, 90). However, people elsewhere in the world, viewing the very same sun, did not see the alleged gyrations; neither did astronomical observatories detect the sun deviating from the norm (which would have had a devastating effect on Earth!). Therefore, more tenable explanations for the reports include mass hysteria and local meteorological phenomena such as a sundog (a parhelion or “mock sun”).

Those who believe in the Fatima “miracle” also cite certain predictions the apparition allegedly made to Lucia, one being that Jacinta and Francisco would soon die. Both did soon succumb to influenza: Francisco in 1919 and Jacinta the following year. However, Zimdars-Swartz observes, “much of what devotees today accept as the content of the apparition comes from four memoirs written by Lucia in the convent [where she later resided] between 1935 and 1941, many years after the series of experiences that constitute the apparition event” (Zimdars-Swartz 1991, 68). Indeed, Lucia recorded her first “prediction” of the children’s deaths in 1927—several years after the fact!

So go blow Fatima and jesus out your ass, douchebag.

[Astreja]

The miracle of the sun itself was primarily for non-Catholics...

Well, this bullshit "miracle" has definitely reinforced my desire to see the RCC plummet in membership, wealth and power at an ever-increasing rate.  If I get my wish, it'll be at 1/100 of its current strength by my 100th birthday in 2057.