The undeniable miracle at Fatima

[Cecelia]

Sorry, none exist. There is an excellent book called "The Incorruptibles" by Joan Cruz that covers the subject. Spoke to her myself about the subject before she died. But that's right, I forgot, you guys don't except research, books, or testimonials on such things unless it fits YOUR definition of acceptable. What a shame.

Wrong.  Wrong.  Wrong.

Dashi-Dorzho Itigilov.
Ramakrishna Paramahansa
Paramahansa Yogananda

[ohreally]

Before this thread I had heard the phrase miracle at Fatima but besides that I knew nothing about what was claimed to have happened.  In reading this thread and learning about it for the first time I find it to be such a low bar for even the word interesting, let alone miracle.  It left no lasting impact, everything returns to normal(as if nothing happened) and nothing changes, that is the definition of ordinary.     

It's shocking to me that adults can think this has some kind of meaningful impact in the world.

It's not only the miracle of the sun that has left a "meaningful impact" on the world, it is the messages the 3 children relayed as coming from this lady over a 6 month period that I've had the most impact. We have not talked about the messages in this thread so far. The 3 children stated that they saw this lady monthly for 6 months leading up to the miracle. After each meeting the children relayed her message to their parents and the locals in Fatima. Each time the messages were entirely Catholic, and contained predictions of things to come in the Catholic Church. The messages were beyond what the children could've known, and all the events later happened. One of the primary messages was that people should pray the Rosary, for example. So these events had the most impact on people who were already Catholic. The miracle of the sun itself was primarily for non-Catholics, but it just confirmed things all the more for those already Catholic.

So catholic kids said catholic things, shoooooooooooocking.  Pull me up off the floor, I can't believe it.   Every claim you are making is unimportant though, I mean who cares if a lady showed up, that happens millions of times everyday.  People make general predictions all the time, doesn't matter.   We could never talk about it again and things would go on exactly as they are now because it's pointless event that had no measurable impact.  The only thing it does for me is show how gullible people can be.  I'll never tire of talking about this subject because of how ridiculous your claim is.

[Joods]

Oh em gee...

You really are this fucking stupid. 

This is great... I love how you keep coming back to this thread to prove your sheer stupidity. 

Please... entertain us some more. You continually prove to everyone here how religion poisons everything and how the brainwashed think.

Brilliant, convincing reply. Just goes to show that you don't have an answer either and that you're upset about it.

LOL please point out my upset in the above post.

---

Hey Poca - 

Does it ever snow where you live? Just curious.

I saw snowing once in Lisbon. A brief piss poor snow that melted as soon as it touched the ground...
Towards the north, there is a mountain range... It snows there every year, and it also occasionally snows to the interior, near Spain. Feel free to come visit in the winter!

I want to!

[Catholic_Lady]

I've had discussions here before about the miracle of the sun. I find it very convincing and impossible to explain away as something other than a supernatural phenomenon. Someone here even said it was a conspiracy by the government (who was somehow able to predict that the sun would do weird things on that day at that time, months ahead of time) and they had the kids involved.

Given the posts in this thread, why do you find it so difficult to accept as a natural phenomenon?

The skeptical consensus can be roughly summarized as: There was a local atmospheric phenomenon (haziness that encouraged people to look at the sun, maybe a sun dog, and it was a very hot day) that caused some people to perceive the sun as 'moving around' when it actually wasn't. The effects of staring at the sun too long combined with this to cause more people to perceive the sun as 'moving around'. Combined with 'miracle fever', this sounds pretty plausible to me, and explains discrepancies like why astronomers didn't notice the sun moving, why the sun moving wasn't a disaster, and why some people present did not see the sun move. Why does it sound implausible to you?

Again, there is no way the atmospheric phenomenon was predicted in the early 1900, months ahead of time, and to the hour. Thinking the government was not only able to predict this, but that they told the kids to tell this elaborate lie in a crazy conspiracy doesnt make much sense. Also, they were not staring at the sun for too long. It was rainy and cloudy up until the time of the miracle. The sun started acting up pretty much right when it appeared.

To your last point, the sun didn't actually physically move around in space. The miracle was the vision of it moving to the people who were lucky enough to be blessed with such gift as to witness a miracle. Like an apparition, where only the kids themselves were able to see the Virgin Mary, though thousands of people were there.

[Joods]

In other words... it was all in their heads.

[Catholic_Lady]

I don't see how that makes much sense either. If it was merely a complete delusion and not real at all in any sort of way, then it is quite a coincidence that tens of thousands of people had the same delusion at the same time. I don't see how that is realistic.

[Astreja]

I don't know what causes it either, CL, but people do behave oddly in crowds. It might have been something like sundogs combined with pareidolia, interpreted through the filter of what they were told to expect.

Pretty sure the sun itself remained in its usual spot, 'tho.

[Minimalist]

In other words... it was all in their heads.

It always is.

[Catholic_Lady]

I don't know what causes it either, CL, but people do behave oddly in crowds.  It might have been something like sundogs combined with pareidolia, interpreted through the filter of what they were told to expect.

Pretty sure the sun itself remained in its usual spot, 'tho.

Just seems like too many coincidences for it to be realistic, imho. 

I mean, the event was predicted months ahead of time to the hour (though it was not said that it would have anything to do with the sun). 

That sundogs and pareidolia would both be present at the same time, which happens to be the exact time that a miracle was predicted months before hand... and to be seen by thousands of people...? Just seems a little too perfect to be likely. 

It also doesn't explain the instant drying of people's wet clothes and puddles.

I think this is a case where the "rational explanations" are more unlikely than the proposal that it truly was a supernatural phenomenon.

[Cyberman]

So it wasn't just a visionary thing?