Impeachment process in the United States

[Brian37]

You'd be right if it were a rare thing. But we are not talking about politics as normal. 

IT IS THE REPEATED DAILY scapegoating and vilification of MULTIPLE groups and individuals. This isn't a rare thing with this guy.

You are not getting it. If other politicians see his daily carpet bombing political vilification of any dissent as a lagit way of winning an election, that CAN have long term negative effects on our western values.

You, "Politicians lie".

Me, "No kidding".

Not the point. I am talking about his TONE and rhetoric as a tactic. Again, when you have even LAW AGENTS saying your rhetoric is toxic, this is no longer politics as normal, this is dangerous and destructive.

He needs to be put in his place to send a message that his carpet bombing vilification is not acceptable. 

We have seen in past history where hyper nationalism, political scapegoating and vilification can lead, and it never ends well.

I think you are fooling yourself if you think the climate he has set is normal. It is not normal.

It hasn't been a rare thing for quite a while.  Again, the only difference is we've got Trump using it directly rather than the usual strategy of the top dog pretending to be presidential while their minions go out and sling the toxic rhetoric/vilification.  My opinion, is that the curtain has been pulled back, and we're now seeing politics as it is.

This is the environment we all created.  You could see it coming back in 2008.  Obama and his birth certificate.  At the same time, Sarah Palin was accused of pretending Trig was her baby, and it was actually Bristol's, and a big coverup.  That was a story on a leftwing website that a lot of democrats used as a news source.  And in the heat of the election, a lot of them bought it.  

Essentially, as a voters, we've made it clear we'll agree to anything we're told if it helps our candidate/party.  If people want to stop that, they have to hold their own party accountable, as those are the people you can influence.  But that comes at a cost, because the other side is going to keep doing it, and it's going to keep working.  And nobody wants to lose any ground, so death spiral it is!

If this is your way of saying "A society is only as good as it's participation" not the point.

In the west we are supposed to have extra measures of checks on power, including the majority to avoid mob rule by vote.

Iran and Saudi Arabia and China hold elections too despite popular belief. 

Our system of checks and balances here in the west are also a check on the majority too. 

I would only agree that DEMS for far too long have had too much apathy in local and state elections, and that has cost us long term.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

But impeachment isn't just about criminal acts. It was a concept put in place just in case you had a nutcase manage to get power. You are talking about probability issues not the intent of the tool itself.

Wrong, Brian. Can you not read?  Impeachment is solely about criminal acts, nothing else. 

Boru

[Whateverist]

Yeah, you certainly can't make it about the perceived nuttiness of the decision making on the part of the person elected to the office.

[vorlon13]

Trump is the infected gall bladder of the Republican party.

The condition will be terminal unless some idjit yanks it out before the patient expires in agony.

[Crossless2.0]

Yeah, you certainly can't make it about the perceived nuttiness of the decision making on the part of the person elected to the office.

Right. But the nuttiness of the President can fall under the 25th Amendment.

That said, I quail to imagine how bad things would have to get before a Vice-President and Cabinet would invoke it. Pence, for example, would have to remove his tongue from Trump's ass long enough to even see what a loon he works for, much less grow the sack to do anything about it before it was much too late.

[Joods]

Yeah, you certainly can't make it about the perceived nuttiness of the decision making on the part of the person elected to the office.

Right. But the nuttiness of the President can fall under the 25th Amendment.

That said, I quail to imagine how bad things would have to get before a Vice-President and Cabinet would invoke it. Pence, for example, would have to remove his tongue from Trump's ass long enough to even see what a loon he works for, much less grow the sack to do anything about it before it was much too late.

Yeah - Pence is just as bad with his religious agenda he wants to push.

[Crossless2.0]

Right. But the nuttiness of the President can fall under the 25th Amendment.

That said, I quail to imagine how bad things would have to get before a Vice-President and Cabinet would invoke it. Pence, for example, would have to remove his tongue from Trump's ass long enough to even see what a loon he works for, much less grow the sack to do anything about it before it was much too late.

Yeah - Pence is just as bad with his religious agenda he wants to push.

Oh, I loathe Pence and, in some ways, fear him more than Trump. If Trump were to be removed from office, sitting-President Pence could be harder to beat in 2020 than Trump would be. He'd pick up the Trump faithful, possibly win over some independents by parroting the usual conservative bromides without being as outwardly offensive as Trump, and whip up enthusiasm among the now-demoralized Christian Right -- perhaps enough to get those idiots out in big numbers. Couple that with the Democrats' long history of fumbling around and fucking up apparent slam dunks, and you have a recipe for four more years of "My god, what have we done?".

Pence is a piece of shit. The problem is he's an experienced, polished piece of shit. Trump is just Trump in all his toxic, ignorant glory.

[vorlon13]

Had Pence ran in the GOP primary Trump would have crushed him just like the rest of the field. And Trump would have done it in such a way (coarsely, crudely, crappily) that Pence could never under those circumstances have accepted being veep under Trump.

Don't know if that has occurred to either of them, might behoove all of us if someone pointed it out to them.

[henryp]

It hasn't been a rare thing for quite a while.  Again, the only difference is we've got Trump using it directly rather than the usual strategy of the top dog pretending to be presidential while their minions go out and sling the toxic rhetoric/vilification.  My opinion, is that the curtain has been pulled back, and we're now seeing politics as it is.

This is the environment we all created.  You could see it coming back in 2008.  Obama and his birth certificate.  At the same time, Sarah Palin was accused of pretending Trig was her baby, and it was actually Bristol's, and a big coverup.  That was a story on a leftwing website that a lot of democrats used as a news source.  And in the heat of the election, a lot of them bought it.  

Essentially, as a voters, we've made it clear we'll agree to anything we're told if it helps our candidate/party.  If people want to stop that, they have to hold their own party accountable, as those are the people you can influence.  But that comes at a cost, because the other side is going to keep doing it, and it's going to keep working.  And nobody wants to lose any ground, so death spiral it is!

If this is your way of saying "A society is only as good as it's participation" not the point.

In the west we are supposed to have extra measures of checks on power, including the majority to avoid mob rule by vote.

Iran and Saudi Arabia and China hold elections too despite popular belief. 

Our system of checks and balances here in the west are also a check on the majority too. 

I would only agree that DEMS for far too long have had too much apathy in local and state elections, and that has cost us long term.

I'm saying this is our political process.  It's been this way for a while.  If we start impeaching people over it, everybody is going to be impeached.

---

Yeah - Pence is just as bad with his religious agenda he wants to push.

Oh, I loathe Pence and, in some ways, fear him more than Trump. If Trump were to be removed from office, sitting-President Pence could be harder to beat in 2020 than Trump would be. He'd pick up the Trump faithful, possibly win over some independents by parroting the usual conservative bromides without being as outwardly offensive as Trump, and whip up enthusiasm among the now-demoralized Christian Right -- perhaps enough to get those idiots out in big numbers. Couple that with the Democrats' long history of fumbling around and fucking up apparent slam dunks, and you have a recipe for four more years of "My god, what have we done?".

Pence is a piece of shit. The problem is he's an experienced, polished piece of shit. Trump is just Trump in all his toxic, ignorant glory.

The real concern for the left should be the economy.  This thing stays this way in 2020, it's going to be tough to motivate people to push him out.