Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?

[Succubus]

Regarding the highlight. Why would god proceed with this experiment when, as you correctly point out, he knew the end result would be a three pronged clusterfuck.
Would you place your hand on an anvil and hit it with a sledge hammer just to find out what would happen? Of course not, but this retard god of yours did exactly that with the Adam and Eve thing.

 
Why would you believe the creation to be an experiment, is it because you are repeating something you heard or are you assuming such, either way there is nothing to support a experiment. Such being, you need to address the creation for what it was meant. Your analogy being compared to God and what He did holds no water, it's as dry as old bones. You have failed to add anything of importance to this conversation.

Answer the fucking question! Why did god...

On second thoughts, fuckit, I'm wasteing keyboard ink.

[SteveII]

I think involuntary slavery is immoral. The Bible does not say that slavery is moral.

The bible says exactly that involuntary slavery is moral. God even commands it and provides instruction for how it should be performed.

Regulating a universal cultural institution (shared by every nation in the region and probably on earth) is not the same as declaring it moral. You are inferring it--which is not the same as, well, either thing you said above.

[Harry Nevis]

The bible says exactly that involuntary slavery is moral. God even commands it and provides instruction for how it should be performed.

Regulating a universal cultural institution (shared by every nation in the region and probably on earth) is not the same as declaring it moral. You are inferring it--which is not the same as, well, either thing you said above.

Sure it is.  If it's telling you HOW to do it, instead of NOT to do it, it condones it.  Especially if tthe source is supposedly all-good.

[Astreja]

It would have been so easy for a law that outlawed {slavery} completely.

This is one of the things that seals the deal for me regarding the Bible being a human invention and not a divine one.  One would think that an actual god, particularly one purporting to be a good one bestowing morality, would have come down hard against things like slavery, rape, and child abuse.  Instead we get charming little soundbites on the proper way to punish the victims of these abhorrent acts.

[Crossless2.0]

The bible says exactly that involuntary slavery is moral. God even commands it and provides instruction for how it should be performed.

Regulating a universal cultural institution (shared by every nation in the region and probably on earth) is not the same as declaring it moral.

Perhaps not, but prohibiting a cultural institution on the grounds of immorality would be within the power of a supreme (and supremely good) being. Having the power and unique authority to establish such a low moral bar and then failing to do so suggests nothing other than a sovereign willing to tolerate if not condone the institution. It may not rise to the level of Yahweh declaring it "moral" (I guess not all of his orders were therefore 'moral' in nature) but it sure doesn't look good for him. Shit, people were subject to capital punishment for much less than enslaving others.

I amuses me no end how believers, who are so quick to claim their faith as the foundation of all true morality, become cultural relativists every time Biblical slavery comes up. Anything to avoid admitting you worship a book character, eh?

[Godscreated]

You've gotten lazy or you out of arguments, this is a dodge.

You got me, it is lazy and also a dodge, I can only reply to so many threats of judgement and drivel in a day

Could be that God is calling out to you and if you're to actually become a Christian in the way you believe you will no matter how much you fight it.

Now you're being ridiculous, the Bible was written long before you were born, so it's you that's at odds with the Bible and the God who gave it to us. God hasn't tried to make His desires come fruition, His ultimate will is another thing entirely. Answer me this would you want God to force you to be a part of His Kingdom?

How would the bible being written long before i was born make any difference, so was the Koran, and many religious writings you can't claim any truth on when it was written.  If you say god hasn't tried to make his desires come to fruition, and he wants all men to be saved are you now saying he's not really interested in all men being saved, if he is, why not simply reveal himself, he could easily do that without interfering with free will as you put it. ?   

Don't be ridiculous, I told you it was God's desire not His will that all would be saved. If God were to reveal Himself before man you would have no choice but to believe, the effect upon you would be the same as it was on Moses.

His ultimate will must be that many go to hell as well as some saved, otherwise what's the point in his 'ultimate will' if it does not match his desires and wishes? And would I want god to force me into his kingdom, absolutely not but to send many to hell and that be his ultimate goal is also stupid, no i wouldn't want to be with such a puny petty god.

Why do you say the bold by me? My ultimate will for my woodworking projects do not necessarily match my desire for a piece, why would you expect God to be different. Your desire is God's will and if you continue you will have chosen your own special hell. God doesn't choose your destination, He does enforce your choice, so if you do not change you should be preparing yourself for a life eternal of torment, a torment worse that an everlasting fire. Gods not so puny as you say, He will make sure you have your choice and that you will not be able to change if you continue down this path of destruction.

 

Do I seem stupid to you? You wouldn't agree with me if I could prove all that I've written to you.

Oh but i would believe if you could prove it, but simply you cannot or at least so far have not. All you have done is quoted the bible, bible this bible that.

Interesting finish to your above sentence, seems to me you're at a loss for words or an argument against the Bible. Of coarse I can't prove everything, if you thought that was a possibility you wouldn't have made the statement you did. Faith comes first to those who do not know God, later God gives His children of inheritance knowledge the truth of scriptures, I have a knowledge you can't understand. How do I know this, you can't understand the simplest things of scripture.

Those who are so closed minded have no reason to accept what truths have been presented to them.

Excellent so prove them, then they will be real truths, rather than purly faith based  truths.

Your answer is in my above statement.

God doesn't require I give proof of anything,

Convenient that isn't it

There is a sensible answer about this very thing, God knows that man can't make a heart change in non believers so He is the One who will bring the proof to those who desire Him to change them. Simple really, for a bunch that's suppose to be so logical you all sure suspend it when it come to your eternal life, sad really.

He asked me to tell others why I believe and I have done so, the rest is on you and God will remind you of this at judgement if you do not change.

There is no god to remind me at judgement. or at least not one you have provided a smidgen of evidence for.

 God says that only a fool will say there is no God, you have a label given to you by your creator, you still have a chance to change that or you can carry it into eternity and the worse hell that you can't even begin to imagine, forget the fire it will be much worse.

GC

[Abaddon_ire]

The word "slavery" implies that it is involuntary.  One common dodge is to equivocate slavery with contracted service.  However, in the Bible these servants are often beaten.  There are also rules regarding how beating a servant to death should or should not be punished, and preventing a servant with a family from gaining freedom if he has a family (he can go, but they have to stay).

Looks like involuntary all the way down.

It would have been so easy for a law that outlawed it completely.

Yes. Simply insert a commandment that "Thou shalt not own people as property" or similar. Somehow that evaded god and afterwards jebus. Why might that be?

Another contention is that good ole Jebus superseded all of the old testament stuff, which, of course directly contradicts what jebus and the NT actually says as well.
This, of course means that the ten commandments are also superseded. "But jebus made the ten commandments part of the new testament" they will say. Well no, he didn't. He cited 5 of them only and have a guess which ones he left out.

Then there is the Golden Rule, "Do unto others..." and all that, directly plagiarised from the Hammurabi Code. That is presented by christians as something of a miraculous insight of jebus, yet it isn't.

---

Could be that God is calling out to you and if you're to actually become a Christian in the way you believe you will no matter how much you fight it.

Atheists are not fighting anything, there is just no valid reason to believe in any of the thousands of claimed gods.

Don't be ridiculous, I told you it was God's desire not His will that all would be saved. If God were to reveal Himself before man you would have no choice but to believe, the effect upon you would be the same as it was on Moses.

Well, no not really. For example, if Bible god were proven to exist then I would believe in him/her/it/housecat no problem. But worship it? Nope. Do my best to kill the immoral thug would be more likely and a best course of action from a moral perspective.

Why do you say the bold by me? My ultimate will for my woodworking projects do not necessarily match my desire for a piece, why would you expect God to be different.

He is by definition different. If god is not different then he is the same as anyone else and gets no special consideration.

Your desire is God's will and if you continue you will have chosen your own special hell. God doesn't choose your destination, He does enforce your choice, so if you do not change you should be preparing yourself for a life eternal of torment, a torment worse that an everlasting fire.

Who created a hell to which he could consign the unbelievers? Who then threatened that place upon those to whom he had not revealed himself. Does that sound "loving" to anyone.

Gods not so puny as you say, He will make sure you have your choice and that you will not be able to change if you continue down this path of destruction.

Bible god is amazingly puny. According to the bible, he is not omnipotent, omniscient or omnipresent. and strangely unable to deal with iron chariots, for some reason.

Do I seem stupid to you? You wouldn't agree with me if I could prove all that I've written to you.

Stupid? No. Misled? Yes.

Interesting finish to your above sentence, seems to me you're at a loss for words or an argument against the Bible. Of coarse I can't prove everything, if you thought that was a possibility you wouldn't have made the statement you did. Faith comes first to those who do not know God, later God gives His children of inheritance knowledge the truth of scriptures, I have a knowledge you can't understand. How do I know this, you can't understand the simplest things of scripture.

Start with that lot. Then we can go on to how your scripture is unable to even agree with itself, gets basic things wrong, and swipes itself from pretty much every other religion in the region at the time.

Oh, and talking donkeys and unicorns and dragons and so forth. That will be a bucket of metaphorical fun.

[John V]

Slavery of foreigners by Israel was a judgment by God. As you know, in some instances where people were particularly sinful, all were put to death. In some instances slaves were taken. If they hadn't, they would have been killed. When you're complaining about Israel being allowed to have slaves, you're basically complaining about God's judgment. 

The law didn't allow slavery as in the US. It specifically said that those who kidnapped people and sold them as slaves were to be put to death.

Hebrews themselves could become slaves through debt, but that was temporary and was more like indentured servitude to pay off the debt.

Note that God punished Egypt for unjustly enslaving Israel. But, when Israel sinned, God actually put them into slavery in Babylonia in judgment.

So, you think slavery is terrible? You're right, and that's why it was used in judgment.

[Astreja]

Slavery as divine punishment, alpha male? (shakes head) I've heard some pretty low excuses for the Bible's immoral position on slavery, but that really takes the cake.

As for Godscreated's latest pathetic "believe or burn" screed, I've discovered a truly remarkable way to comprehend them. All you have to do is scratch out "God" and write in "Godscreated" in crayon, and the posts make considerably more sense.

To the both of you: Count yourselves lucky that I don't currently have a functioning time machine, because if I did I would go back in time to destroy Christianity at its roots.

[John V]

Slavery as divine punishment, alpha male?  (shakes head)  I've heard some pretty low excuses for the Bible's immoral position on slavery, but that really takes the cake.

How so?

Do you disagree that God sent Israel into Canaan in part in judgment of those people?

Do you disagree that otherwise the law prohibited capturing people and putting them into slavery?

Do you disagree that the Babylonian captivity was a judgment on Israel?