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RE: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
November 22, 2017 at 2:39 pm
(This post was last modified: November 22, 2017 at 2:43 pm by Chad32.)
(November 22, 2017 at 1:56 pm)Harry Nevis Wrote: (November 22, 2017 at 5:19 am)Godscreated Wrote: I did not say anything about kids and animals, you're trying to add untruth to my post. Burning down your house because it's roof leaks would be stupid and your analogy doesn't even come close to a representation of why God did what He did.
GC
"Wiping out a whole nation for it's attacks on His people is God's right, He did create them. Just as you have the right to destroy anything you make."
So I can kill my kids and be morally right with god, as I created them.
Gotcha.
I'm kind of waiting for him, or someone else, to claim god creates babies. Not people. That's an argument I've heard before.
Actually Alpha Male already made it. Yes, we do create our babies. A man and a woman have sex, and a baby forms with a combination of their genes. That may not be breathing life into a dirt golem, but it is creating something.
(November 22, 2017 at 2:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well first off, what immoral things has God done?
Can you honestly read the bible, and not think of anything a modern reader won't find immoral, unless they start with the conclusion that god is always right when going into it?
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RE: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
November 22, 2017 at 2:44 pm
Like what for example?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
November 22, 2017 at 2:48 pm
(November 22, 2017 at 2:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Like what for example?
I honestly find that a stupid question. There is such a long list of things in the old testament, and even some in the new testament, that I honestly believe that you're either being dishonest right now, or you honestly haven't read the thing. Is that really a serious question?
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RE: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
November 22, 2017 at 2:49 pm
(November 22, 2017 at 2:48 pm)Chad32 Wrote: (November 22, 2017 at 2:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Like what for example?
I honestly find that a stupid question. There is such a long list of things in the old testament, and even some in the new testament, that I honestly believe that you're either being dishonest right now, or you honestly haven't read the thing. Is that really a serious question?
Yes.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
November 22, 2017 at 2:58 pm
Killing children because of the bad things their parents did. As one of many examples. If your solution to a problem inflicts pain and death on innocent little kids, then it's not a good solution. No matter how even you think the adults are being. An all powerful and knowing entity shouldn't have to resort to killing anyone, least of all someone who hasn't committed a crime.
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RE: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
November 22, 2017 at 3:12 pm
(November 22, 2017 at 2:38 pm)alpha male Wrote: There's a reason for the word procreate. You don't create your children.
Was that a definition given by god? Because people DO create their children. No one else can create the same offspring. They're unique to the parents.
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
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RE: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
November 22, 2017 at 3:14 pm
(November 22, 2017 at 2:58 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Killing children because of the bad things their parents did. As one of many examples. If your solution to a problem inflicts pain and death on innocent little kids, then it's not a good solution. No matter how even you think the adults are being. An all powerful and knowing entity shouldn't have to resort to killing anyone, least of all someone who hasn't committed a crime.
Are you talking about the Passover?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
November 22, 2017 at 3:28 pm
(November 22, 2017 at 3:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (November 22, 2017 at 2:58 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Killing children because of the bad things their parents did. As one of many examples. If your solution to a problem inflicts pain and death on innocent little kids, then it's not a good solution. No matter how even you think the adults are being. An all powerful and knowing entity shouldn't have to resort to killing anyone, least of all someone who hasn't committed a crime.
Are you talking about the Passover?
One of any time he's ordered the slaughter of children. Telling troops to kill every man woman and child, save for young virgin girls. Or killing David's kid because he did a bad thing. Though passover is a great example, since it's directly stated he hardened Pharoah's heart so Moses couldn't convince him, just so Yahweh could bring down more plagues. including killing the firstborns.
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RE: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
November 22, 2017 at 4:03 pm
(This post was last modified: November 22, 2017 at 4:04 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(November 22, 2017 at 3:28 pm)Chad32 Wrote: (November 22, 2017 at 3:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Are you talking about the Passover?
One of any time he's ordered the slaughter of children. Telling troops to kill every man woman and child, save for young virgin girls. Or killing David's kid because he did a bad thing. Though passover is a great example, since it's directly stated he hardened Pharoah's heart so Moses couldn't convince him, just so Yahweh could bring down more plagues. including killing the firstborns.
If this is the type of thing that is being referred to as "God's immoral ways", my answer personally to the thread question is that all these Old Testament stories were written allegorically. I don't know how many theists on this site are Old Testament literalists, but in Catholicism at least, an allegorical interpretation of the OT tales is quite common and accepted. Ive spoken about this quite a bit on the forums before.
I'm not saying none of these wars happened, or that there wasn't a King named David who's children died, or that the Egyptians didn't enslave Jews who eventually obtained freedom. But do I think God's voice sounded from the skies and gave people war orders? Do I think He sent down a black cloud of death to kill the Egyptians' first born? No, I don't. I think Jesus came and showed us a very accurate picture of what God is like - someone who tells us to love our enemies.
I think a lot of these stories are still a step up for the morality of those times. For example, sparing the life of virgin women in war and marrying them, while allowing them to divorce you if they eventuslly chose to do so, was a step up in morality at that time. Young women in war would otherwise be enslaved and raped for life, kept as sex objects. So these stories ignighted a sort of moral awakening in people from thousands of years ago when things were very different and very uncivilized. In this way, God worked through people slowly to bring about higher moral standards.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
November 22, 2017 at 4:06 pm
(This post was last modified: November 22, 2017 at 4:08 pm by Abaddon_ire.)
Some things I noticed...
"procreate". There actually is a reason for the word "procreate" and it is not any god of any description. It's meaning is to create progeny by means of copulation. Nothing more. No god involved. (that would be weird).
Gen. 1:28 explicitly states "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." (KJV). Humans having rights above animals is biblically mandated from the outset. This is never revoked at any time in the bible.
"God cures people all the time." Does he? Then why does he hate amputees? He never cures any of them.
(November 22, 2017 at 4:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (November 22, 2017 at 3:28 pm)Chad32 Wrote: One of any time he's ordered the slaughter of children. Telling troops to kill every man woman and child, save for young virgin girls. Or killing David's kid because he did a bad thing. Though passover is a great example, since it's directly stated he hardened Pharoah's heart so Moses couldn't convince him, just so Yahweh could bring down more plagues. including killing the firstborns.
If this is the type of thing that is being referred to as "God's immoral ways", my answer personally to the thread question is that all these Old Testament stories were written allegorically. I don't know how many theists on this site are Old Testament literalists, but in Catholicism at least, an allegorical interpretation of the OT tales is quite common and accepted. Ive spoken about this quite a bit on the forums before.
I'm not saying none of these wars happened, or that there wasn't a King named David who's children died, or that the Egyptians didn't enslave Jews who eventually obtained freedom. But do I think God's voice sounded from the skies and gave people war orders? Do I think He sent down a black cloud of death to kill the Egyptians' first born? No, I don't. I think Jesus came and showed us a very accurate picture of what God is like - someone who tells us to love our enemies.
I think a lot of these stories are still a step up for the morality of those times. For example, sparing the life of virgin women in war and marrying them, while allowing them to divorce you if they eventuslly chose to do so, was a step up in morality at that time. Young women in war would otherwise be enslaved and raped for life, kept as sex objects. So these stories ignighted a sort of moral awakening in people from thousands of years ago when things were very different and very uncivilized. In this way, God worked through people slowly to bring about higher moral standards.
Do you consider the NT to be better?
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