How do religious people justify raising and slaughtering animals for food?

[Angrboda]

Your original claim was that, "You can find every thing that you find in meat in fruits, nuts, beans, vegies, root foods without all the crap that you find in meat."  However, even you acknowledge that this is not true, that you need to supplement it with bacteria and other incidentals from the environment.  Supplementing is supplementing, whether it comes from a pill or from dirty water.  Moreover your assertion is only consistent with those who can supplement their diet with these intestinal flora.  For the greater part of the world, either the environment doesn't provide such, or the food delivery system upon which the people depend cannot provide it.  So, no, they cannot "find every thing that you find in meat in fruits, nuts, beans, vegies, root foods."  Your original claim was both false, and your expanded claim represents a pie in the sky impracticality which is only available to a select few.  So, no, you are simply wrong.

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My original claim stand up very well yog.

Sure, if you just ignore the parts that show that you were wrong, then you were right.  How silly of me.

As far as you eat those items that I mentioned (plus grains that I forgot to mention) then you get your b12.  
If however you wash them up you strip them of the microorganisms that carry b12.  
In that case you need a b12 supplement but I don t because I know how to deal with the issue. Also my doctor that check me regularly has nt found any deficency of b12 on me.  
Most people however do not know how to deal with the issue so they need supplements that is their problem and therefore doesn t mean I
was wrong.  

Conclusion

It is possible that some vegans can ward of overt vitamin B12 deficiency, and even mild B12 deficiency, through B12 production by bacteria in the small intestine. However, this is an unusual condition, especially in Western countries, and should not be relied upon, including by raw foodists.

http://veganhealth.org/b12/int

Still wrong.

Microbial sources
B12 is produced in nature only by some prokaryotes (certain bacteria and archaea); it is not made by any multicellular or single-celled eukaryotes.[32][33] It is synthesized by some gut bacteria in humans and other animals, but humans cannot absorb the B12 made in their guts, as it is made in the colon which is too far from the small intestine, where absorption of B12 occurs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12

Still wrong.

Also your link about Indian vegetarian is a load of BS.  
India in the last 50 years has changed more than in the last 500 years. From a traditional way of life to a fast race to catch up with the west. In this way they screwed up all the good that they had. That means also their health.
No wonder that their bodies lack so many vitamins including b12.  
India heavy  pollution also drains your body  from all good things you carry in your body.  
Obviously the study you present did nt take in consideration of all these issues.

These are nothing but ad hoc explanations for why the evidence doesn't support you.  Regardless, we live in the present, not the past.  Even if it were desirable for the world to revert to the conditions of pre-industrial India, it couldn't be done.  And those times were filled with high infant death mortality rates, people dying from contamination and filth, the same filth that you are suggesting we depend upon, and in general miserable deplorable and unsustainable conditions.  India today is a country with well over a billion people.  "Going out back to harvest unwashed vegetables," is not a sustainable solution, even if it could be shown to work, which you haven't.  What you're suggesting is that the world turn back to conditions in which disease and death were rampant, solely because you have a religious aversion to eating meat.  That not only makes you wrong and horribly misguided, but an unfeeling and irresponsible asshole.

Introduction
The story of mortality transition in India is truly a remarkable one. Mortality, which was
high during the 19th century, started declining since the beginning of the 20th Century
doubling the life expectancy at birth in the 20th century. It has reached 61.3 years for
males and 63.0 years for females by 1997-2001.

. . . . . . . .
Hunger disease and death: the phase of high mortality 1872-1921
Mortality across British India was strikingly high in this period. The average life
expectancy at birth during 1881-1920 was around 25 years- 25.3 years for males and 25.6
years for females during 1901-11- signifying very heavy mortality during the late 19th
and early 20th century. Infant mortality rates outreached 200 in the country with high
fluctuations. At higher ages, mortality fluctuation was nominal, despite its high level.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...rspectives

[Little Rik]

I never said that people should go back in the past where unwashed food was normal.
That is not possile these days where hydroponic vegies are becoming the norm and very few people have a garden to grow their own food.
All I said is that as far as you eat unwashed fruits and vegetables you do not need b12.
In this way i did destroyed your claim that vegetarians need b12.
After that you pop up with all sort of BS to telling me that I was wrong.
Failed attemp yog, you are the wrong not me.
As far as the vegetarians in India that for countless of generation don t eat meat yet they are ok you presented a study that these people
lack in many vitamins.
The day that you will present me a study that that lack of vitamins is not due to lack of food, heavy pollution that these days affect all India, fast modern life, and other unnatural causes then I will agree with you.

[The Grand Nudger]

If you eat "unwashed" fruits and veggies, you'll need a coroner.  There's a reason we (as in, the producer..nobody trusts the likes of you not to kill yourself) wash them..because the b12 that used to come from them came from feces.  Frankly, we don't even use feces anymore. So you wont be getting that from unwashed vegies anytime soon, thank god.

You are literally talking about lapping up shit, Rik.

[Angrboda]

All I said is that as far as you eat unwashed fruits and vegetables you do not need b12.  

And all I did was show that you were wrong.

In this way i did destroyed your claim that vegetarians need b12.  
After that you pop up with all sort of BS to telling me that I was wrong.

Yeah, all that BS that showed that you were wrong.  If you ignore all the things that showed that you were wrong, then you were right.
 

[Little Rik]

How dishonest can you be yog?
Your initial link was saying that b12 can only come from animal product.
I don t eat meat yet I got enough b12 and so million of pure vegetarians in India.
After this you make a Uturn by saying that veg. in India are lacto vegetarian so they can get some b12 from there.
After this you present one more BS study in which show a lack of b12 in so many veg. in India.
Once again I did show you that this study did not take in consideration the real factors why that is the case.
Now instead of admitting your failing you engage in more BS.
When you will ever grow up yog?

[Angrboda]

How dishonest can you be yog?  
Your initial link was saying that b12 can only come from animal product.  

Something which I've shown is generally true, regardless of any special conditions that might exist in India.

I don t eat meat yet I got enough b12 and so million of pure vegetarians in India.

This you claim, despite evidence to the contrary. Who is being dishonest?
 

After this you make a Uturn by saying that veg. in India are lacto vegetarian so they can get some b12 from there.  
After this you present one more BS study in which show a lack of b12 in so many veg. in India.  

A point which you dishonestly deny above.

Once again I did show you that this study did not take in consideration the real factors why that is the case.

You pulled some shit from your ass that you provided no evidence for. I am not impressed.
 

Now instead of admitting your failing you engage in more BS.

My point that getting sufficient b12 from an exclusively vegetarian diet in the majority of the world is unrealistic remains untouched by your bullshit denial of evidence and bare ass assertions. The simple fact is even if the majority of the world could eat unwashed veggies, the majority wouldn't contain the right bacteria and so they'd be left with the necessity of supplementing their b12 despite eating unwashed veggies.

I don't know whether you have sufficient b12 or not, and I doubt you do either. As noted, you live in Australia, not India. Do you need me to draw you a map?

You say one thing, and when it's shown to be flawed, you just flit to some other bullshit claim, never providing evidence for any of it. You're nothing but a charlatan.

[GrandizerII]

OP, it's a moral necessity, methinks. I don't know if it should be seen as immoral or not. When I think about it philosophically, it seems like there may be something immoral about killing animals for food. But when I'm fucking starving, boy do I not give a fuck. Gimme me my animalistic protein!

Rik lives in Australia? Better keep an eye out for him ... to avoid at all costs.

[Cod]

Rik lives in Australia? Better keep an eye out for him ... to avoid at all costs.

Just look for someone with glazed eyes and slobber down his chin.

[Drich]

I'm an atheist and a non-vegetarian but I can clearly see that raising and slaughtering animals for food is immoral. This is partly because of the appalling conditions under which most of these animals are raised and the fact that we are killing them for our benefit.

Do religious folks agree? If not, how do they ethically defend non-vegetarianism?

No not immoral..

[Little Rik]

How dishonest can you be yog?  
Your initial link was saying that b12 can only come from animal product.  

Something which I've shown is generally true, regardless of any special conditions that might exist in India.

I don t eat meat yet I got enough b12 and so million of pure vegetarians in India.

This you claim, despite evidence to the contrary. Who is being dishonest?
 

After this you make a Uturn by saying that veg. in India are lacto vegetarian so they can get some b12 from there.  
After this you present one more BS study in which show a lack of b12 in so many veg. in India.  

A point which you dishonestly deny above.

Once again I did show you that this study did not take in consideration the real factors why that is the case.

You pulled some shit from your ass that you provided no evidence for. I am not impressed.
 

Now instead of admitting your failing you engage in more BS.

My point that getting sufficient b12 from an exclusively vegetarian diet in the majority of the world is unrealistic remains untouched by your bullshit denial of evidence and bare ass assertions. The simple fact is even if the majority of the world could eat unwashed veggies, the majority wouldn't contain the right bacteria and so they'd be left with the necessity of supplementing their b12 despite eating unwashed veggies.

I don't know whether you have sufficient b12 or not, and I doubt you do either. As noted, you live in Australia, not India. Do you need me to draw you a map?

You say one thing, and when it's shown to be flawed, you just flit to some other bullshit claim, never providing evidence for any of it. You're nothing but a charlatan.

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Provide evidence?
Sure yog, now is your turn to do so by showing that b12 can only come from animal souces as you claimed.

On my part I already show you that lacto-vegetarians get the b12 without having to eat meat.
Even if you don’t believe me that I can get it from unwashed vegies the Indian vegetarians are the living evidence.

On your part still 0 evidence.
Get real evidence or get lost.