The benefits of being christian. Where are there???

[drfuzzy]

It boggles my mind that theists put so much energy into the idea that human love and empathy aren't good enough. Then they defeat their own purpose by presenting  that gruesome, bloodthirsty god as the source of what they think is love.

If I catalogued the unloving acts of god recorded in the bible, these theists will defend such acts. In so doing, they betray the fact that they don't have the slightest idea of what love is.

    Yes.  Exactly. Good point, Rhonda.  I've been mulling over this a bit lately.
It's a bit of a derailment of the thread, but this points to why I think that fundamentalism is detrimental to humanity.  Fundamentalists have their entire world-view based upon a set of beliefs, the stories in an old book, and the support of like-minded individuals.  It's tribal.  There is security in that insular group. But when someone questions that world-view it doesn't simply elicit cognitive dissonance - it is perceived as an outright attack. THEY are right.  Anyone who is not part of their tribe is evil and not even considered human.

 -- Now -- while I'm skeptical of all religion, not just fundamentalism, I have to note that I know Christians who are wonderful people, they don't preach, they try to treat everyone with love and respect.  But when they do talk about "god is love and loves everybody and wants the best for all and there are many paths to god" I have to bite my tongue so I don't ask them if they have actually read their Bible.  

Dan Mager wrote an article that touches on this in Psychology Today, and said: "For someone who is emotionally attached to the need to be right, all divergent perspectives, ideas, suggestions, and actions must be “wrong.” The need to be right convinces him or her of the correctness of his or her approach, while attachment to this end serves to justify the means used to facilitate it. When this dynamic is acted out it creates suffering for those caught in its wake—most often, partners and family members, including children."  
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/som...r-be-happy
    It reminds me of some memes about Trump supporters - they list a huge list of crimes he could be caught committing, and his supporters would still defend him.  Why?  Their preachers tell them that they voted the right way.  Their biases tell them they voted the right way.  It's not remotely possible that they were wrong.
    Things went down the same way over slavery . . .

[Haipule]

It boggles my mind that theists put so much energy into the idea that human love and empathy aren't good enough. Then they defeat their own purpose by presenting  that gruesome, bloodthirsty god as the source of what they think is love.

If I catalogued the unloving acts of god recorded in the bible, these theists will defend such acts. In so doing, they betray the fact that they don't have the slightest idea of what love is.

    Yes.  Exactly. Good point, Rhonda.  I've been mulling over this a bit lately.
It's a bit of a derailment of the thread, but this points to why I think that fundamentalism is detrimental to humanity.  Fundamentalists have their entire world-view based upon a set of beliefs, the stories in an old book, and the support of like-minded individuals.  It's tribal.  There is security in that insular group. But when someone questions that world-view it doesn't simply elicit cognitive dissonance - it is perceived as an outright attack. THEY are right.  Anyone who is not part of their tribe is evil and not even considered human.

 -- Now -- while I'm skeptical of all religion, not just fundamentalism, I have to note that I know Christians who are wonderful people, they don't preach, they try to treat everyone with love and respect.  But when they do talk about "god is love and loves everybody and wants the best for all and there are many paths to god" I have to bite my tongue so I don't ask them if they have actually read their Bible.  

Dan Mager wrote an article that touches on this in Psychology Today, and said: "For someone who is emotionally attached to the need to be right, all divergent perspectives, ideas, suggestions, and actions must be “wrong.” The need to be right convinces him or her of the correctness of his or her approach, while attachment to this end serves to justify the means used to facilitate it. When this dynamic is acted out it creates suffering for those caught in its wake—most often, partners and family members, including children."  
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/som...r-be-happy
    It reminds me of some memes about Trump supporters - they list a huge list of crimes he could be caught committing, and his supporters would still defend him.  Why?  Their preachers tell them that they voted the right way.  Their biases tell them they voted the right way.  It's not remotely possible that they were wrong.
    Things went down the same way over slavery . . .

I'm sorry to pick you Dude! But, I am a full fledged theist that has approached the language of God's Word scientifically. What I have found is inexcusable nonsense and complete manipulation because they all must support a theology that is non-existent. Theology should be the science of God but, it has become the showcase of man's goofy ideas.

When I approach people on these threads, it is from the perspective of what I found and not form the perspective that has been taught for centuries. Which teaching is aimless without life. If no one interacts with life then: how can they teach life being dead?

The whole bible is about living that life that God promised in His Word and is available no where else except God and even without written Word.

So then life living is more important then the Words we read! Because we are more then a Word!

[The Grand Nudger]

Yup, that was pretty goofy.

[drfuzzy]

---

    Yes.  Exactly. Good point, Rhonda.  I've been mulling over this a bit lately.
It's a bit of a derailment of the thread, but this points to why I think that fundamentalism is detrimental to humanity.  Fundamentalists have their entire world-view based upon a set of beliefs, the stories in an old book, and the support of like-minded individuals.  It's tribal.  There is security in that insular group. But when someone questions that world-view it doesn't simply elicit cognitive dissonance - it is perceived as an outright attack. THEY are right.  Anyone who is not part of their tribe is evil and not even considered human.

 -- Now -- while I'm skeptical of all religion, not just fundamentalism, I have to note that I know Christians who are wonderful people, they don't preach, they try to treat everyone with love and respect.  But when they do talk about "god is love and loves everybody and wants the best for all and there are many paths to god" I have to bite my tongue so I don't ask them if they have actually read their Bible.  

Dan Mager wrote an article that touches on this in Psychology Today, and said: "For someone who is emotionally attached to the need to be right, all divergent perspectives, ideas, suggestions, and actions must be “wrong.” The need to be right convinces him or her of the correctness of his or her approach, while attachment to this end serves to justify the means used to facilitate it. When this dynamic is acted out it creates suffering for those caught in its wake—most often, partners and family members, including children."  
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/som...r-be-happy
    It reminds me of some memes about Trump supporters - they list a huge list of crimes he could be caught committing, and his supporters would still defend him.  Why?  Their preachers tell them that they voted the right way.  Their biases tell them they voted the right way.  It's not remotely possible that they were wrong.
    Things went down the same way over slavery . . .

---

---

I'm sorry to pick you Dude! But,

---

I am a full fledged theist that has approached the language of God's Word scientifically. What I have found is inexcusable nonsense and complete manipulation because they all must support a theology that is non-existent.

---

Theology should be the science of God but, it has become the showcase of man's goofy ideas.

When I approach people on these threads, it is from the perspective of what I found and not form the perspective that has been taught for centuries. Which teaching is aimless without life. If no one interacts with life then: how can they teach life being dead?

The whole bible is about living that life that God promised in His Word and is available no where else except God and even without written Word.

So then life living is more important then the Words we read! Because we are more then a Word!

---

I'm sure that I'm going to regret asking this question - but oh well.
If it's "God's Word" why has "god" allowed it to be riddled with inexcusable nonsense and manipulation?  Why so many "translation errors"?  Why is interpretation so vague that 12 preachers of the same denomination will give 12 different interpretations about what they THINK a passage says?  Why is God shown as an immoral, evil, brutal bronze age war god?  Why is god 404 not found anywhere, even to those who pray and read the book daily?

Nope.  I don't think there is anything special hidden in those pages.  And if god exists, humans certainly shouldn't have to study ancient Greek and Aramaic and ancient Hebrew to get to whatever "real" inspiration that you think you have found.  The book desperately needs a re-write, and we need to have "god" come down here and make the corrections in front of TV cameras.

[The Grand Nudger]

You do have to wonder what kind of god writes a magic book in a language it, presumably, knows will be long dead before 99% of the people who will ever believe in it will live.....and that only a fraction of those will ever actually read it's masterwork.

I'd say he's a masochist, but he did get himself nailed to that board... so that may not be so surprising.

[Haipule]

---

I'm sorry to pick you Dude! But,

---

---

Theology should be the science of God but, it has become the showcase of man's goofy ideas.

When I approach people on these threads, it is from the perspective of what I found and not form the perspective that has been taught for centuries. Which teaching is aimless without life. If no one interacts with life then: how can they teach life being dead?

The whole bible is about living that life that God promised in His Word and is available no where else except God and even without written Word.

So then life living is more important then the Words we read! Because we are more then a Word!

---

I'm sure that I'm going to regret asking this question - but oh well.
If it's "God's Word" why has "god" allowed it to be riddled with inexcusable nonsense and manipulation?  Why so many "translation errors"?  Why is interpretation so vague that 12 preachers of the same denomination will give 12 different interpretations about what they THINK a passage says?  Why is God shown as an immoral, evil, brutal bronze age war god?  Why is god 404 not found anywhere, even to those who pray and read the book daily?

Nope.  I don't think there is anything special hidden in those pages.  And if god exists, humans certainly shouldn't have to study ancient Greek and Aramaic and ancient Hebrew to get to whatever "real" inspiration that you think you have found.  The book desperately needs a re-write, and we need to have "god" come down here and make the corrections in front of TV cameras.

It doesn't need a "rewrite"! It is perfect--trust me I am a scientist! When someone said Father Idiot tells us what it means then you are only arguing against Father Idiot--not the bible! NOT ME!

That's the problem, idn'it!

So too you, the bible is just a "fairytale"! Whatever the fuck you think: which really means nothing to nobody right? Except to people whom believe in fairytales!

Like the magic book of science with its iron earth core and atomic nature. Can you even believe this fuckin' shit: they will actually tell you that you evolved from apes? In fact, they will actually tell you there is such thing as gravity they have never proved nor seen!

Talk about magic! Magic evolution, magic sciences! Talk about magic books of fucking unbelievable fairytales! You actually believe that shit?

[Mystic]

Unbalanced, unguided, and chaotic love is the definition of evil. And if you don't recognize the source and goal of love, the highest value, aka God, well the shoe fits.

---

And Jesus like Samuel (name of God) was the word of God and his name and light in the world, if you hate what morality in essence is and in essence what is always it's path (a leader appointed by God), you are outside the door of light and are just using it to deceive yourself or others or a combination.

You can't hide from the vision of God and he is what defines you.

Love . . . (any variety?) . . . is the definition of evil?  

Almost everyone acts on love, good and evil people alike.
There are conditions to make love meaningful otherwise chaotic unguided and unbalanced love is what evil always come down to and source of oppression to the oppressed.
It is what blinds people to the truth and makes them take side of falsehood, where they can't distinguish the worse of all people from the best.
Confused in this state, they become apathetic and self-centered, and self-deceiving in that they are good.

[Angrboda]

Love . . . (any variety?) . . . is the definition of evil?  

Almost everyone acts on love, good and evil people alike.
There are conditions to make love meaningful otherwise chaotic unguided and unbalanced love is what evil always come down to and source of oppression to the oppressed.
It is what blinds people to the truth and makes them take side of falsehood, where they can't distinguish the worse of all people from the best.
Confused in this state, they become apathetic and self-centered, and self-deceiving in that they are good.

Sounds like someone I know.

[drfuzzy]

---

I'm sure that I'm going to regret asking this question - but oh well.
If it's "God's Word" why has "god" allowed it to be riddled with inexcusable nonsense and manipulation?  Why so many "translation errors"?  Why is interpretation so vague that 12 preachers of the same denomination will give 12 different interpretations about what they THINK a passage says?  Why is God shown as an immoral, evil, brutal bronze age war god?  Why is god 404 not found anywhere, even to those who pray and read the book daily?

Nope.  I don't think there is anything special hidden in those pages.  And if god exists, humans certainly shouldn't have to study ancient Greek and Aramaic and ancient Hebrew to get to whatever "real" inspiration that you think you have found.  The book desperately needs a re-write, and we need to have "god" come down here and make the corrections in front of TV cameras.

---

It doesn't need a "rewrite"! It is perfect--trust me I am a scientist! When someone said Father Idiot tells us what it means then you are only arguing against Father Idiot--not the bible! NOT ME!

That's the problem, idn'it!

So too you, the bible is just a "fairytale"! Whatever the fuck you think: which really means nothing to nobody right? Except to people whom believe in fairytales!

Like the magic book of science with its iron earth core and atomic nature. Can you even believe this fuckin' shit: they will actually tell you that you evolved from apes? In fact, they will actually tell you there is such thing as gravity they have never proved nor seen!

Talk about magic! Magic evolution, magic sciences! Talk about magic books of fucking unbelievable fairytales! You actually believe that shit?

Yeah right.          
So, you come onto an atheist forum, to assert that you have studied the Bible (which xtians think for some reason is god's word) and that you understand it in a way that no trained theologian from any discipline can.  You have studied it "scientifically".  You know old languages and they don't.   
Well, first, who cares?  We're atheists. There can't be "god's word" in any form unless there is a god, and nobody seems to be able to provide ANY proof that it exists.  Just for starters.
And despite constantly crowing about your superiority, you have provided nothing but trolling and boasting.  Now, if, it could be clearly shown that a manuscript from the year 300 exists which undeniably says that "in the years 2016 - 2018, American Xtians are going to prove to the world that they worship only social and political power" -- hey, I'd perk up and give it another look.  But you have given us nothing.  Just like all the other preachy trolls here.

What I "believe"?  Nothing.  I accept hard facts and research.  Which, by your post above, you clearly need to study.

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Love . . . (any variety?) . . . is the definition of evil?  

Almost everyone acts on love, good and evil people alike.
There are conditions to make love meaningful otherwise chaotic unguided and unbalanced love is what evil always come down to and source of oppression to the oppressed.
It is what blinds people to the truth and makes them take side of falsehood, where they can't distinguish the worse of all people from the best.
Confused in this state, they become apathetic and self-centered, and self-deceiving in that they are good.

"There are conditions to make love meaningful otherwise chaotic unguided and unbalanced love is what evil always come down to and source of oppression to the oppressed."
English translation needed.
At least you dropped the inane assertion that all love comes from god.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Almost everyone acts on love, good and evil people alike.
There are conditions to make love meaningful otherwise chaotic unguided and unbalanced love is what evil always come down to and source of oppression to the oppressed.
It is what blinds people to the truth and makes them take side of falsehood, where they can't distinguish the worse of all people from the best.
Confused in this state, they become apathetic and self-centered, and self-deceiving in that they are good.

Sounds like someone I know.

Indeed.