Do my parents fear that I'll leave the faith?

[Godscreated]

 For a Christian lying is never acceptable. Christians respect the moral code that God has given us, do we comply always, no we do not we are humans and we fail, we have seen the need of Jesus to redeem us unto God. Lying to your parents means you do not trust them nor do you respect them and I can tell you this leads to a dangerous life's choice. Of coarse this is all your call but I see it as a disaster later in life. Facing up to your parents now will in the end have a better result.

GC

So making them mad and not going to college will make my life better?

They may but you can't know that for sure. Many have worked their way through college because they wanted the education, they didn't burden their parents with paying for college and I dare say there are those on this forum that have done the same thing.  

Do you think that we shouldn't lie because there is a daddy in the sky who watches us? Not all atheists are moral, but the ones who are use logic and empathy to determine their moral code, and I'm sure that moral christians use also these rather than the Bible.

What makes you believe logic and empathy will be a good moral guide. They neither one have authority nor substance. Christians who follow the moral code given by God through the Bible and heart do not go all wishy washy on their morality.

If you're doing good out of fear of punishment and for reward you lack empathy. And if you bring the argument that something is right because God said so, it means that you follow him without questions, just like sheep.
Good and evil are relative, sometimes you're forced to do the wrong thing in order to do the right thing.[/quote]

  Those who do such are not secure in their faith, those Christians who do good because it's the right thing to do have no fear of a punishment. Besides bad kids need a good spanking from time to time. Why would I need to question God, He is omniscient. He has the advantage of knowing all things that are good for us.
 Your last statement is not a logical one, where did your logic go. If you always do good there is no reason to do wrong, you are just a little kid with much to learn about a world that is ready to chew you up.

GC

---

 For a Christian lying is never acceptable. Christians respect the moral code that God has given us, do we comply always, no we do not we are humans and we fail, we have seen the need of Jesus to redeem us unto God. Lying to your parents means you do not trust them nor do you respect them and I can tell you this leads to a dangerous life's choice. Of coarse this is all your call but I see it as a disaster later in life. Facing up to your parents now will in the end have a better result.

GC

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 

"if through my falsehood", that is in your book. Look it up.

Oh and even outside that, any deity willing to murder kids like the Egyptian Firstborn, and the flood, I think is perfectly capable of lying and wanting his minions to lie for him.

  All that just shows your ignorance of God and His scriptures.

GC

---

  No they probably do not know, it sounds like they are not Christians either and if they are not, whether they believe in hell or not if the whole family doesn't change you will spend eternity in that non place. Just because you refuse to believe doesn't make what you think correct, it means you are fooling yourself so you can live the life style you have chosen. I just responded to you in another thread where you called Christians pussies, I believe you were actually speaking of yourself since you are afraid to tell them the truth. Oh, you also mention a moral code in the other thread, apparently in the atheist moral code it's okay to lie, that is exactly what you are doing when you withhold the truth from your parents. So the next time you want to rave about Christians I suggest you get the log out of your eye before speaking.

GC

GC,

I really wish you would understand that DA is a teenager who has questions. So your attempt to lay out a guilt trip on a child who is already unsure of his own world, isn't really fair. I think you should re-evaluate some of the things you said here and try a better tactic. Your god would want that.

  Exactly how does an atheist know what the God you do not believe in wants. Yes I know he's a kid and I've only been honest with him. What would you have me do lie to him as he lies to his parents. Telling someone that they need to learn to be honest with others is not placing a guilt trip on them, it is a life's lesson that will give them a greater ability to work with others. Once someone learns to deceive others and they think it's been to an advantage they will keep doing the same thing. That person will some day have those lies catch up with them and then hell breaks loose in their life.

GC

---

 For a Christian lying is never acceptable. Christians respect the moral code that God has given us, do we comply always, no we do not we are humans and we fail, we have seen the need of Jesus to redeem us unto God. Lying to your parents means you do not trust them nor do you respect them and I can tell you this leads to a dangerous life's choice. Of coarse this is all your call but I see it as a disaster later in life. Facing up to your parents now will in the end have a better result.

GC

Why do you need redemption? Do you believe in original sin?
How can my life turn into a disaster? Can you be more specific?

Like every man, woman and child you are sinning against the God who gave you life and holds it in His hand. He simply ask that you believe in His Son and follow Him to receive the redemption you need to live eternally with Him. It is your choice, God has given you that choice and you do have to choose and the alternative will be most unpleasant.

Yes I believe in original sin, didn't it have to start with someone. There are many ways for a persons life to turn into a disaster and they all begin with wrong choices, just like the one you chosen with your parents. You may believe you are getting away with something now and that will embolden you to choose wrongly again because it seemed easy to do the first time, it will all come back to you some day, please mark this down and keep it and see in 25 years if I'm right or wrong. 

---

Die, ignore GC and Alpha. The are not really interested in your mental health, but selling you old mythology.

1. Stay in school
2. Stay out of trouble,
3. Fly under the radar for now, if you need to it does get better
4. When you are old enough, you'll be free from this prison
5. You can always bitch here if you need to.

But for now, if you are not 18 and they pay your bills, you'll simply have to do the best you can. We do understand, we see this kind of thing all the time with other teens too. You are not alone.

Following Brian37 might seem right now but the future will reveal the truth.
1. Do stay in school all would agree that that one.
2. Staying out of trouble means do not start by lying to your parents.
3. How can Brian37 know your future, something drastic could happen before you graduate from high school.
4. You can never be free of the world as long as you play by it's rules, that's why the Bible says, believe in Christ and you will be set free.
5. Making good choices means there will be far less to bitch about.

GC [/quote]

[Joods]

---

GC,

I really wish you would understand that DA is a teenager who has questions. So your attempt to lay out a guilt trip on a child who is already unsure of his own world, isn't really fair. I think you should re-evaluate some of the things you said here and try a better tactic. Your god would want that.

 

 Exactly how does an atheist know what the God you do not believe in wants.

I don't know exactly what your god wants, but I was once a Christian too so I think I have a pretty good idea. I've read the bible so I'm not entirely clueless. Also - I can take cues from what the theists, yourself included, here have posted in the past about their god. What I do know is that you and others here preach all the time about how your god is love and compassion. If that is true, then common sense would dictate that using love and compassion is what your god would want you to do. And you knew from my response to you, that that is exactly what I was suggesting. 

Yes I know he's a kid and I've only been honest with him. What would you have me do lie to him as he lies to his parents. Telling someone that they need to learn to be honest with others is not placing a guilt trip on them, it is a life's lesson that will give them a greater ability to work with others. Once someone learns to deceive others and they think it's been to an advantage they will keep doing the same thing. That person will some day have those lies catch up with them and then hell breaks loose in their life.

GC

I never accused you of lying to him. I also never suggested that you lie. It was how you worded things that I was addressing. I merely stated that perhaps you could try to phrase things a little bit differently so that it didn't come across as how it did. Kids have a tendency to shut themselves off if they feel like they are being lectured.

[Godscreated]

 For a Christian lying is never acceptable. Christians respect the moral code that God has given us, do we comply always, no we do not we are humans and we fail, we have seen the need of Jesus to redeem us unto God.

Then how do you explain William Lane Craig, Kent Hovind, Ray Comfort, Ken Hamm, Sye Ten Bruggencate...

 

I have no idea why you mentioned them and frankly do not see how they fit into a conversation where trying to teach a young man something about his life.

Hypothetical...

Was it morally acceptable for the people (Christians) hiding Anne Frank and her family during WWII, to lie to the Gestapo when they came to search?

That would be called deception not lying, there is a difference. What would you have them do kill her? The Allied Forces used deception to defeat the Germans, did we lie to them, no, should we have told them all our plans for defeating them, no. We didn't lie we fought a war. It seems you have difficulties with what is right and wrong.

Lying to your parents means you do not trust them nor do you respect them and I can tell you this leads to a dangerous life's choice. Of coarse this is all your call but I see it as a disaster later in life. Facing up to your parents now will in the end have a better result.

Oh please...

Are you that clueless to understand that there are 1000's of kids that are disowned by their Christian parents for coming out atheists? Or had their finances for college discontinued?

Some of us live in the real world. You should join us some time.

 First of all I live in this world the same as everyone else, the difference is that I know truth has rewards that may not be immediately apparent. How do you know how his parents will react, are you omniscient. I can see something far more important than college but I do hope that's what can do, but with a clear conscience. Christian parents who disown their children for believing differently than they do are not following the will of God. Please do not give me the laws of Moses they do not apply in a matter such as this.

GC

GC

[Der/die AtheistIn]

What do your parents believe in specifically? I found that in Germany ( i just assume that you are from germany because of your name) it depends a lot on what the people believe and how active they are in their religious community. If you could tell me that I am sure i can help you.

I'm from Romania, I used a german name because I learned german since preschool and I want to study in Vienna.

---

So making them mad and not going to college will make my life better?

They may but you can't know that for sure. Many have worked their way through college because they wanted the education, they didn't burden their parents with paying for college and I dare say there are those on this forum that have done the same thing.  

Do you think that we shouldn't lie because there is a daddy in the sky who watches us? Not all atheists are moral, but the ones who are use logic and empathy to determine their moral code, and I'm sure that moral christians use also these rather than the Bible.

What makes you believe logic and empathy will be a good moral guide. They neither one have authority nor substance. Christians who follow the moral code given by God through the Bible and heart do not go all wishy washy on their morality.

If you're doing good out of fear of punishment and for reward you lack empathy. And if you bring the argument that something is right because God said so, it means that you follow him without questions, just like sheep.
Good and evil are relative, sometimes you're forced to do the wrong thing in order to do the right thing.

  Those who do such are not secure in their faith, those Christians who do good because it's the right thing to do have no fear of a punishment. Besides bad kids need a good spanking from time to time. Why would I need to question God, He is omniscient. He has the advantage of knowing all things that are good for us.
 Your last statement is not a logical one, where did your logic go. If you always do good there is no reason to do wrong, you are just a little kid with much to learn about a world that is ready to chew you up.

So you admit that you lack empathy and logic. Good, the first to solving a problem is recognizing you have one.

[Godscreated]

So you admit that you lack empathy and logic. Good, the first to solving a problem is recognizing you have one.

No I did not say that and you know I did not. If you have that much trouble with comprehension then what makes you believe college is the place for you.

GC

[Brian37]

So you admit that you lack empathy and logic. Good, the first to solving a problem is recognizing you have one.

No I did not say that and you know I did not. If you have that much trouble with comprehension then what makes you believe college is the place for you.

GC

Doing good for a bribe, and obeying out of threat, are not moral.

Doing good even when nobody rewards you or hears about it is moral. Neither your God or the split personality/himself are moral. They reflect the same immoral selfish narcissism of the kingships of antiquity. Even in polytheism, humans STUPIDLY saw their success as being magically handed down to them. And those ruling families and warrior classes set up those structures, not for the benefit of surfs, but to enrich the family. 

"Lord" and "Kingdom" do not reflect our modern pluralism. 

I am sure Kim Jong Un treats his loyalists well too. But he'll even murder family members to send a message not to cross him. 

You not liking Die's responses does not mean it was not comprehended, it just means Die think's you are full of it.

[Der/die AtheistIn]

So you admit that you lack empathy and logic. Good, the first to solving a problem is recognizing you have one.

No I did not say that and you know I did not. If you have that much trouble with comprehension then what makes you believe college is the place for you.

GC

But

 Those who do such are not secure in their faith, those Christians who do good because it's the right thing to do have no fear of a punishment.

empathy =/= fear of punishment

[Godscreated]

No I did not say that and you know I did not. If you have that much trouble with comprehension then what makes you believe college is the place for you.

GC

Doing good for a bribe, and obeying out of threat, are not moral.

You are correct, what you do not understand those things are not part of Christianity, you've sold yourself on a myth and where you learned this myth was from those trying to destroy Christianity, a biased idea.  

Doing good even when nobody rewards you or hears about it is moral. Neither your God or the split personality/himself are moral. They reflect the same immoral selfish narcissism of the kingships of antiquity. Even in polytheism, humans STUPIDLY saw their success as being magically handed down to them. And those ruling families and warrior classes set up those structures, not for the benefit of surfs, but to enrich the family.

Those people may have set up their powers because they believed God wanted it that way. They were wrong and Christians know this. In Christianity much good is done without people knowing who and those doing good things telling anyone they did so. Get over your biased state of mind, Christians do much good in this world and you have no idea it's being done because we make no big deal of it. 

"Lord" and "Kingdom" do not reflect our modern pluralism.

Lord means our savior and His kingdom is all things that He has, that would include all the saved.

I am sure Kim Jong Un treats his loyalists well too. But he'll even murder family members to send a message not to cross him.

Kim Jong Un has no one loyal to him read your first sentence in this post. By your own words he has no loyal people.
 

You not liking Die's responses does not mean it was not comprehended, it just means Die think's you are full of it.

 Just because I disagree with his responses doesn't mean I think he can't comprehend. What I was speaking of he didn't comprehend or he was being an ass. Much like you, proud of your influence on him I bet.

 GC

---

No I did not say that and you know I did not. If you have that much trouble with comprehension then what makes you believe college is the place for you.

GC

But

 Those who do such are not secure in their faith, those Christians who do good because it's the right thing to do have no fear of a punishment.

empathy =/= fear of punishment

 Christians do good things because they want to, we want to help others and yes please God and none of this is done because of fear, we do so because we love. You've been sold a bill of goods that's not true of Christianity. I know you live in Europe and I do not know how Christians think there, but I would be surprised if it's different than in the US.

GC

[Der/die AtheistIn]

 Christians do good things because they want to, we want to help others and yes please God and none of this is done because of fear, we do so because we love. You've been sold a bill of goods that's not true of Christianity. I know you live in Europe and I do not know how Christians think there, but I would be surprised if it's different than in the US.

GC

If christians don't do good because of fear or reward, then why does Jesus mention Hell and Heaven?

[Abaddon_ire]

If christians don't do good because of fear or reward, then why does Jesus mention Hell and Heaven?

Because GC says so, apparently.

You are young. It can be difficult to stand up to those who have spent years developing their apologetics. I became an atheist 37 odd years ago and over that time I have learned how to hold my own against the nonsense theists present.

GC wants to reconvert you by means of what he/she thinks are clever arguments. It is easy for me to counter argue any of that nonsense because I have been doing it for decades. You are young and do not have that experience.

Except you do have it to hand simply by dint of being a member here, where you can freely draw upon the experience of your fellow atheists. And it will be freely given.