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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 5:47 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2018 at 5:52 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Sure, we could add another mystifying decision to the pile. Mans accused of rape..nothing happened as described..man fails to point that out - to be polite. Even though his career is being threatened and his character assassinated.
Just says that he read it a different way and he was sorry.
Which brings me round to another question about responsibility and these generous assumptions. What on earth would compel a 36(?) year old man in the public light...now.... to compromise himself in such a manner?
.............and I thought we agreed he was a next level creep, he would still be a next level reep if he thought that what she described, there, was okay...don;t you think? Maybe not a rapist..still superduper creepy regardless- nothing about his response seems to change that assessment for me..whether it's "bitches be lyin" or "I thought she was cool".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 5:49 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2018 at 5:49 pm by Shell B.)
This was his response to her text that she was uncomfortable the night before: “I’m so sad to hear this. All I can say is, it would never be my intention to make you or anyone feel the way you described. Clearly, I misread things in the moment, and I’m truly sorry.”
(January 17, 2018 at 5:47 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Sure, we could add another mystifying decision to the pile. Mans accused of rape..nothing happened as described..man fails to point that out - to be polite. Even though his career is being threatened and his character assassinated.
Just says that he read it a different way and he was sorry.
Which brings me round to another question about responsibility an these generous asumptions. What on earth would compel a 36 year old man to compromise himself in such a manner?
He didn't fail to point it out. He said things were completely consensual. That's by definition refuting a rape accusation. Derp.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 5:51 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2018 at 5:52 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
"I am so sad to hear this. All I can say is, it would never be my intention to make you or anyone else feel the way you described. Clearly, I misread things in the moment and I'm truly sorry."
Oh, ninja
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 6:00 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2018 at 6:08 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 17, 2018 at 5:49 pm)Shell B Wrote: This was his response to her text that she was uncomfortable the night before: “I’m so sad to hear this. All I can say is, it would never be my intention to make you or anyone feel the way you described. Clearly, I misread things in the moment, and I’m truly sorry.”
(January 17, 2018 at 5:47 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Sure, we could add another mystifying decision to the pile. Mans accused of rape..nothing happened as described..man fails to point that out - to be polite. Even though his career is being threatened and his character assassinated.
Just says that he read it a different way and he was sorry.
Which brings me round to another question about responsibility an these generous asumptions. What on earth would compel a 36 year old man to compromise himself in such a manner?
He didn't fail to point it out. He said things were completely consensual. That's by definition refuting a rape accusation. Derp. Shell, hes' denyng that it was a rape, not denying that the specific events took place. He directly acknowledges this..and actually does do so in a demure and appropriately polite manner. "Sexual activities".
This is -all- I'm saying, is there a disagreement on -that-? It's not, in his defense.."bitches be lyin"..it's "I thought she was cool with it". Well, generous assumptions....remember, what he thought she was cool with..is what her story is describing. I can see why she wasn't cool with it. I have a harder time accepting that he was completely oblivious.
Try it this way, if he misread the situation..he didn't misread it once, or twice, or even just three times....or even all at once.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 6:51 pm
By saying it was consensual, he refuted her story. He made a brief statement, which was smart, if you ask me. If he said she was lying, he’d have been roasted.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 6:56 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2018 at 6:58 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 17, 2018 at 6:51 pm)Shell B Wrote: By saying it was consensual, he refuted her story. He made a brief statement, which was smart, if you ask me. If he said she was lying, he’d have been roasted.
Oh, I think it was a smart statement too, and I think it was a bit lawyerly. Again..your intimating any refutation of events..that's not in there. He's getting roasted anyway, nobody escapes the claw...just ask that poor girl.
Personally, if bitches be lyin about me, I'll be singing it in a high tenor to anyone who'll listen. Because I am a normal person..unlike any of the participants in this little drama...seemingly.
So..do you think that, going forward, this was a teachable moment for him? Do you think he learned anything?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 7:31 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2018 at 7:33 pm by bennyboy.)
At what point are people just going to get real? My answer would be something like "Of COURSE I was pressuring her. We were on a date, I thought she was hot, and I was trying very hard to get her to have sex with me. But she didn't tell me I had to stop: she didn't push me away, or say "No."
I'm a little older now, but I remember two things about my youth:
1) I was very shy, so girls were VERY aggressive with me-- I mean, they clearly got off on it: "Ben, we are going to have sex, right here, right now, and don't even bother trying to stop me!" This is not from a girlfriend but from a stripper who was friend of a friend of a friend. I do NOT intend to find her and charge her with sexual assault, though, because even though I never encouraged her and hardly even had a chance to give consent, I enjoyed it.
2) There was definitely a point of arousal at which the word "No" probably wouldn't have meant anything if I had been drunk. Once, I was fully sober, and a girl and I were getting seriously into it-- naked, petting, deep kissing on my bed, and I went in for the final act, and: "No. . . Do you LOVE me? Tell me you LOVE me, tell me you'll be my boyfriend." I managed to pull away and kick her manipulatin' ass the hell out of my room. . . but really just barely, and with an act of willpower so strong that it bordered on a religious experience.
I don't have a moral position on either of those scenarios, but on a pragmatic level-- all the memes in the world aren't going to stop people from acting on their very strong sexual motivations. A moral system which doesn't acknowledge how powerful sex is is not going to serve us very well in the long run.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 7:35 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2018 at 7:36 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 17, 2018 at 7:31 pm)bennyboy Wrote: At what point are people just going to get real? My answer would be something like "Of COURSE I was pressuring her. We were on a date, I thought she was hot, and I was trying very hard to get her to have sex with me. But she didn't tell me I had to stop: she didn't push me away, or say "No."
One of the things we're not supposed to say...and in context of this particular event that would have been legal suicide. Because, of course, she says she did say no, repeatedly. Now he;s a guy who was "pressuring" the shit out of a hot girl...which is what it sounds like he was doing, so long as we're euphemising something dangerously close to rape, at least, as "pressuring". Another thing we are not supposed to say.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 8:49 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2018 at 8:52 pm by Shell B.)
(January 17, 2018 at 6:56 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (January 17, 2018 at 6:51 pm)Shell B Wrote: By saying it was consensual, he refuted her story. He made a brief statement, which was smart, if you ask me. If he said she was lying, he’d have been roasted.
Oh, I think it was a smart statement too, and I think it was a bit lawyerly. Again..your intimating any refutation of events..that's not in there. He's getting roasted anyway, nobody escapes the claw...just ask that poor girl.
Personally, if bitches be lyin about me, I'll be singing it in a high tenor to anyone who'll listen. Because I am a normal person..unlike any of the participants in this little drama...seemingly.
So..do you think that, going forward, this was a teachable moment for him? Do you think he learned anything?
Here's the thing, you're applying what you would do to what a man who has a public relations team for sure would do. Big, huge, fat difference.
Also, how the fuck are you failing to see this? Girl says it wasn't consensual. He says it was. That's a fucking refutation. It's there, homey. Plain as the nose on your face. I'm baffled you're not picking that up.
(January 17, 2018 at 7:35 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (January 17, 2018 at 7:31 pm)bennyboy Wrote: At what point are people just going to get real? My answer would be something like "Of COURSE I was pressuring her. We were on a date, I thought she was hot, and I was trying very hard to get her to have sex with me. But she didn't tell me I had to stop: she didn't push me away, or say "No."
One of the things we're not supposed to say...and in context of this particular event that would have been legal suicide. Because, of course, she says she did say no, repeatedly. Now he;s a guy who was "pressuring" the shit out of a hot girl...which is what it sounds like he was doing, so long as we're euphemising something dangerously close to rape, at least, as "pressuring". Another thing we are not supposed to say.
You're assuming she's hot based on what?
Oh, and I think he learned that celebrities shouldn't let their freak flag fly on the first date.
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RE: Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist
January 17, 2018 at 9:03 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2018 at 9:06 pm by Athene.)
(January 17, 2018 at 12:04 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (January 17, 2018 at 5:08 am)Thena323 Wrote: It's amazing to watch people carry on as if they don't remember that "Grace" DID NOT accuse Ansari of RAPE, but of being a pushy, piggy, creep. Perhaps the reason she considered his behavior to be noteworthy, AND the reason why the press saw fit to run the story, was because the guy was clearing misrepresenting himself in purporting to be a staunch ally/supporter of sexual harassment and misconduct awareness.
No, she specifically accuses him of sexual assault.
Yes. And??
Sexual assault is an all-encompassing term that is NOT LIMITED to rape.
It also includes groping/forcible touching, sexual coercion, sexual harassment, stalking and other forms of unwanted sexual contact.
Quote:As far as I've seen, everyone here agrees that Aziz is a creep and was very much in the wrong to have pressured her and been pushy and inconsiderate. We just don't agree with her accusation of him having assaulted her.
So you AGREE that he was very much in the wrong to have "pressured her" and to have been "pushy", but you DON'T agree with her accusation of him having sexually assaulted her?
Well guess what, CL?
If he pressured, pushed, or coerced her into sexual activity AND/OR forced sexual contact at any point during that evening, then he in fact, DID commit sexual assault, as defined by law.
Quote:Bottom line: He was wrong to have pressured her. She was wrong to have made this story public in accusation of him having sexually assaulted her.
If things went down as she says they did....and again, Mr. Ansari isn't disputing her account of what happened, including her statement about not wanting to feel forced; his only dissent has been that he thought she was "cool with it all"....then I believe she was justified in speaking the TRUTH and exposing this "fierce ally" and "dedicated advocate" for being the FRAUD that actually he is.
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