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January 23, 2018 at 7:57 pm (This post was last modified: January 23, 2018 at 9:12 pm by RoadRunner79.)
Khemikal dateline='\'1516749424' Wrote:
You brought up the doctor analogy. You brought up cancer. You brought up evolution. You brought up global warming. You insisted that we were wrong in thinking that our atheism would land us in hell. You suggested that we go read magic book.
You've been at the wheel this entire conversation..what sense would it make blaming me if you drove your own car right into a ditch? I'm just the incredulous passenger, wondering why any of it seemed like a good idea to you at the time.
One of the benefits of these boards, as opposed to what I do IRL..is that here I actually do get to say all the things I'm thinking, but have to keep silent out of professional courtesy. So, when I see a person lying to themselves about their likely ROI, I gently suggest more accurate numbers. When I see you lying to me and lying to yourself...here, I just call it. You might believe that you're a reasonable person, with reasonable objections to scientific facts..but principally I know that this is not the case...and I happen to have seen some of your specific objections..for that matter. I know that even if there is some reasonable person out there with reasonable objections...you are not that person. I know that you are not the kind of person who will accept that your "reasonable" objections have been addressed..if I was the kind of person foolish enough to waste my time....because you and I have had that convo..now haven't we?
So, this brings me back round to another one of your comments..about what "we" know. I know a great many things, at least in the context of our conversation. Some of those..things about you. Even if you don't, or would disagree to your dying breath. I also know that magic book insists that I will be punished for not accepting the death of the better man, which I wouldn't do even if I did believe it..but obviously -couldn't- do if I didn't believe it. That you are, here, the shaman with the bone rattle, telling me about the danger to my immortal soul.
I highly doubt that you could represent my positions accurately at all. And what's worse, you don't seem to care, and call people liars, when they don't fit your delusions. You make atheists look bad!
For everyone else, I apologize for this breakdown of bad atheist reasoning. The use of these arguments and diversions is not recommended at home. If you find yourself in a situation where you are being accused of misrepresenting someone or something, please seek clarification or support your position. It is best to handle the stronger arguments before securing the weaker one. In the event that you do not care, and are ill-informed, you may find it best to put your head between your legs and take short breaths, this is preferred to exposing your foolishness. Addressing questions, and a display of interest in discussion is recommended, and will prevent further breakdowns in the future.
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It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
January 23, 2018 at 7:59 pm (This post was last modified: January 23, 2018 at 8:00 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Right right right. I'm a delusional poopy head and I make atheists look bad and I've got it all wrong. Now that we've got that out of the way....
Do I have cancer or not? What am I supposed to care about? What does magic book say?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(January 23, 2018 at 4:37 pm)Khemikal Wrote: If "go read the bible !!!" actually answered anyone's questions then why has all the bible reading by bible believing christians managed to produce nothing other than confusion and disagreement?
It seems like a silly suggestion...it;s not even working for you.
I don't think that it is that much of a problem on many things.
When scientist or philosophers have disagreements do you feel the same?
When scientists have disagreements they are debating concepts that are mostly, tangible. Christian theology is as futile an endeavour as debating the incorrect use of syntax in Klingon poetry. Why are there so many thousands of different Christian sects? All fingers point to that idiotic nonsense, the bible.
'Read the bible'.
The book of revelation? 1st chronicles? Leviticus?
I think the sunk cost fallacy applies to the Christian apologists position, they have so much invested in this fantasy that they are unable / incapable of letting it go. They know it's a crock and that's why they are so defensive, I have pity rather than contempt for these poor sods.
They have been fucked from day one by the parents, the church, the schools and the priests.
RoadRunner, are you a bible literalist or is there anything in the bible-Christian dogma you can point to and say, this is clearly demonstrably wrong?
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
(January 23, 2018 at 4:52 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I don't think that it is that much of a problem on many things.
When scientist or philosophers have disagreements do you feel the same?
When scientists have disagreements they are debating concepts that are mostly, tangible. Christian theology is as futile an endeavour as debating the incorrect use of syntax in Klingon poetry. Why are there so many thousands of different Christian sects? All fingers point to that idiotic nonsense, the bible.
'Read the bible'.
The book of revelation? 1st chronicles? Leviticus?
I think the sunk cost fallacy applies to the Christian apologists position, they have so much invested in this fantasy that they are unable / incapable of letting it go. They know it's a crock and that's why they are so defensive, I have pity rather than contempt for these poor sods.
They have been fucked from day one by the parents, the church, the schools and the priests.
RoadRunner, are you a bible literalist or is there anything in the bible-Christian dogma you can point to and say, this is clearly demonstrably wrong?
Yes.. it’s amazing how these arguments and reason do not apply consistently. I also suspect that your psychoanalysis is more reading into it what you want. I think it is better to discuss ideas rather than prescribe self serving motives to others.
To answer your question.
I am not a literalist. I think that the Bible should be read with consideration for natural language and various methods of communicating ideas. This doesn’t mean that I think I told had errors; Just that when Jesus says “I am the Door” that I am thinking hinges and a knob.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
(January 23, 2018 at 5:41 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Fortunately for me, my doctor can demonstrate whether or not I have cancer, so I don’t need to “believe just in case.”
Also, you didn't ask why you should believe, you asked "why should I care" which is an entirely different question.
Sure. I was being snarky, but I see the point in your distinction. What I mean is, why should anyone accept the Bible as a reliable pathway to truth?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
(January 23, 2018 at 5:47 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Also, you didn't ask why you should believe, you asked "why should I care" which is an entirely different question.
Sure. I was being snarky, but I see the point in your distinction. What I mean is, why should anyone accept the Bible as a reliable pathway to truth?
That is a very good question and not necessarily a short answer. Perhaps I may point you to the epistemology thread.
But you do need to care enough to properly address it.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
(January 23, 2018 at 9:41 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Sure. I was being snarky, but I see the point in your distinction. What I mean is, why should anyone accept the Bible as a reliable pathway to truth?
That is a very good question and not necessarily a short answer. Perhaps I may point you to the epistemology thread.
But you do need to care enough to properly address it.
Can you summarize some bullet points here perhaps?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
(January 23, 2018 at 9:50 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: That is a very good question and not necessarily a short answer. Perhaps I may point you to the epistemology thread.
But you do need to care enough to properly address it.
Can you summarize some bullet points here perhaps?
I thought you didn’t care....
Perhaps another time.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
(January 23, 2018 at 3:57 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: I've tried to read the bible several times. Couldn't make it through Genesis. It's just so boring, and as a skeptic, I think to myself "prove it" with just about every line read.
EDIT: Despite that, I'm not entirely sure where I'm supposedly wrong. Christians talk about their god being the Father all the time. Not just Jesus's father, but the father of all creation. It's not like I'm pulling the notion out of my ass... its your own metaphor.
Actually, what I noticed the most, was the description of sending those to hell, simply because they didn't believe.
Are you trying to say that belief in Jesus being the son of god, his torture, death, and subsequent resurrection aren’t a requirement to get into heaven?
I mean, I know the latest Pope has claimed that anyone that’s a good person gets in, but from what I understand, that’s definitely not the opinion of Protestants.
January 23, 2018 at 10:33 pm (This post was last modified: January 23, 2018 at 10:34 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(January 23, 2018 at 10:02 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(January 23, 2018 at 9:59 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Can you summarize some bullet points here perhaps?
I thought you didn’t care....
Perhaps another time.
And I thought I had just clarified what I meant by that: Why should anyone accept the Bible as a reliable pathway to truth?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
