Rebellion against god

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Already given up.  But thank you for your concern.

Boru

[brewer]

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He (Karesh) is/was the product of your sect/schisms teachings. You need to own that. 

...

No, he disregarded SDA teachings, in the aspect of fanaticism, just to start with.
It is typical of strays to slip away very gradually - unknown to themselves and others.
I don't know the full story of David K, but it wouldn't be the first time an SDA went off the rails. Take Harvey Kellog for example.

Or, just take every SDA.

[Ravenshire]

Just a couple of notes about hell.

No one is tortured without end.

After the world is destroyed at the second advent, the world lies desolate for 1000 years, no human life, just the fallen angels on their own.
The saints were raised to life at the advent of Christ, and they go to heaven and live there for 1000 years.

When the 1000 years are over, the city or heaven moves to earth and settles on it.
Then the wicked are raised to life - billions of them.
They are told by Satan that he is the misunderstood prince of this world, and that he wants to claim it back.

The wicked are organized and inspired to form weapons and an army to surround the city and take over. This takes months to prepare, and when they are ready, they march towards the city and surround it.
The people are taken back by the scene of heaven, and almost totally immobilized by the experience.

Then they are given a panoramic vision of the history of the conflict between good and evil - how it began in heaven and was played out on earth.

They see the entire history of earth, life of Christ, the rise and fall of nations, and their own impact in the world.

With perfect accuracy their own thoughts and actions are bought to view, showing the consequences of their sins on all affected.

All bow down before God and confess that he is fair and merciful in requiring a simple faith - the only means by which love can work.

Satan is hated and despised by all, he tries to rally the battle, but no one is interested, in their disappointment and bitterness, the people turn against whoever they blame for their demise, and try to kill them. The army is fighting itself.

A fire begins inside Satan's chest, and he falls to the ground, his angels are next in order of rank, and while they are burning, fire falls from heaven, and begins to consume the wicked.

The wicked are made to suffer the pain they caused on others, and the pain they caused God and heaven, and they die, in pure anguish, like Jesus did on the cross.

The murderer, will feel the stab wounds he gave, and the horror of dying. The thief will feel the loss and insecurity, the liar will feel betrayed, the adulterer will feel pain stronger than losing a loved one by death. The blasphemers will feel the agony of being utterly humiliated.

Some will burn for a long time, as long as it takes for them to experience what they have done to others and God. Satan is the last one to perish.

The earth itself is totally melted, but out of the white heat, a new creation begins, and the earth is turned into a paradise, better than it was in the beginning.
The earth becomes home base for universal travel.

Human beings will tend to and look after the countess planets and creatures. They are as gods to the universe.

The wicked utterly perish by an unquenchable fire, they will never be again, and in the ensuing years they will never be remembered.

Ah. The gospel of Ellen G. White.

I haven't missed that bitch's brand of crazy in the slightest

Read more Erhman, banned. He's ever so much better than that cunt you call a prophet.

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Because goodness exists.
"Good" and "God" come from the same word.

Um...what?

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Banned is a troll.

No, he's worse. He's a seventh day adventist.

[drfuzzy]

Why in the world would you assume that a deity that showed up would call itself YHWH or Jehovah or Elohim or Jesus or Lucifer or Beelzebub? It's equally likely that it would call itself Ra, or Odin, or Zeus, or Brahma, or Ahura-Mazda, or Osiris, or Mithras, or KwanYin . . . (you know a female deity showing up could be lots of fun) . . . I mean, thousands of imaginary super-friends have been made up over thousands of years.  "Hi, I'm Shiva!!  Yes, you noticed that I'm blue, isn't that cool?  Hi, I'm Brainiac 5, here to solve all of your problems! One fantasy creature is just as likely as any other.

I agree, it doesn't matter who or what turns up, if there are no specific identifying traits, how could people tell if it was the God of the Bible or not.

Given these factors, it is reasonable to say that a show doesn't guarantee knowing the truth, agree?

Now we're getting somewhere.  As Astreja said, even if something superhuman shows up, and say, claims to be YHWH, how will we know that it is what it claims to be?  "Q" from Star Trek could show up.  (I hope not, though, he was rather nasty.) And yet people claim to KNOW and have telepathic communication with God solely based on group psychosis and descriptions of it contained in an ancient, deeply flawed compilation of fables.  And they are quite certain that their particular compilation of myths is TRUTH, and all competing beliefs and deities (and often, even competing interpretations of the same myths!) are pitiable delusions.  

I will hold that ALL stories about deities are myth and fantasy until presented with concrete evidence, and then that evidence will require some testing.

[Ravenshire]

So if God puts on a little science show for us, how will the deaf, or the blind, or the severely disabled get their proof?
I guess the disabled will just have to miss out.

But if the proof comes from faith within that God has given as free gift, then all can know the truth.
Such a gift ensures that the ones who think they are better than God will not enter eternal life.
Why would anyone with sense allow the new world to be populated by total creeps?

Your gawd, if it were to exist, in it's omniscience and onmipotence would know exactly what it would take to convince each and every one of us of it's existence, without violating our "free will." The fact that it has never bothered speaks volumes more that you can ever type here about it's existence.

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I personally know a couple dozen devout christians who would completely disagree with half of this nonsense. And there are hundreds of millions of Christians who think your particular version of the afterlife Jesus has planned for you is not only inaccurate but actually completely falsified. Hell, most of what you just said isn't even IN the Bible. It's wishful thinking by those who want to make sense of the nonsense.

It's mostly extra-biblical bullshit dreamed up (or cribbed from "Paradise Lost") by Ellen White. Banned isn't a christer, he's a Whitist.

[Amarok]

Ellen G. White was a fraud.

[Ravenshire]

Ellen G. White was a fraud.

Aren't they all?

[Joods]

^
Boy is that ever sick.

Yep, it makes God sick and he hates the whole scenario, evil doers will be free to run the whole course, and there will be a point when enough is enough.
Evil doers cannot be left to go on forever, suffering has to end.

If it makes your god so sick, then why did he create it to begin with?

This is why religions make no sense. With all of the inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the Bible, I'm really surprised that people still fall for its schtick. No one really thought the god story through but there's a sucker born every minute so they say.

[Amarok]

Yep, it makes God sick and he hates the whole scenario, evil doers will be free to run the whole course, and there will be a point when enough is enough.

Evil doers cannot be left to go on forever, suffering has to end.

Perfect good can't hate anyone hate is the reserve of evil . If a perfectly  good being existed he would not need to punish he would not seek retribution . As i have said . If perfect good appeared their would be no evil doers and no suffering for anyone even the guilty . All wounds would fade. All hatred would die. And everyone from the evilest person to the most righteous would join hands and love cure all . You god sounds more like a demon then a perfect good .

[Banned]

Even with specific identifying traits, I think it's impossible to know if any being actually is a god, or just a god-like being playing at being a god.  This is why I'm a strong agnostic:  I don't see any way for us to see beyond outward appearances to find out what something "really" is, and in fact a god-like being might not be capable of knowing its own true nature.

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Does the victim (no longer a victim thanks to an equalizing force field) have control over this, or is it automatic, like an animal's response?

Automatic, to prevent backstabbing and other stealth attacks.  The individual would have to consciously override the feature, although it's hard to conceive of a situation for which they would want to expose themselves to harm.

I like your answer to that, (the first one) - it's quite profound.
Even if gods are subject to self delusion, we assume that it is possible to have a non deceptive transparent truth, simply by contrast.
It is understandable why some people fall in love with maths, as a rule for reality, or with a system of measuring the world around us... that science offers to a degree.
Humans desire functionality and dependability, out of necessity.

About the automatic defense systems for the innocent, you've made a point which is too big for me to answer.
I would say that most people would agree that the good side has the right to annihilate the evil with equal if not greater force. (US defense force tactic).
Sometimes we see it and sometimes we don't, and when we don't we shake our heads and say there couldn't be a God because of injustice, or because justice is not served soon enough.

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Pure evil can no more disguise itself as good . Then absolute heat could disguise itself as absolute zero . Anymore then pure blackness could pass itself off as pure white . Anymore the shadow could pass itself off as the sun . And mean could love pure evil because there is nothing to love . And mean could only love perfect  good because their would be nothing one could hate. And if pure evil came it would appear as obvious as a black spot on a pure white canvas . and no magic charm or deception could mask perfect evil . Nor could any such magic prevent one from gravitating towards perfect good . Because every reason to love and follow good would come with it revealing. And every reason to wholly reject evil would come with it's appearance .

I totally agree, and by saying that pure evil can no more disguise itself... I assume that you are saying that there comes a time when it is either exposed or it exposes itself.

What if the evil was so well masqueraded that it takes a long time to come undone?
For instance like the growing number of cases of 'perfect crimes' - which are being exposed after decades in the file?

People don't see any justice until the cases are solved, but they never believe that justice doesn't exist, only it isn't happening. And that is really difficult to live with, especially if the innocent are being totally misrepresented.

When both sides are clearly seen and understood, and there is no more misapprehension - then yes, there is no mistake about it, but how long is it possible for people to not know the truth about something - it happens all the time?

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Which is the more convincing - the god that shows up with the potential to be falsified, or the god that never shows up and it's everyone else's fault?

What about the God who used to be around, but was betrayed by those who were supposed to be loyal?
What reality did Cain choose when he killed his brother Able?
Was Cain entitled to have a view? Yes.
Was the murderer given protection from God, from revenge killings?
Strangely yes. That is strange. What was God thinking? Or was Cain to be given a complete chance to repent?
Or was it a punishment by making him live with his hideous past?

The same issues came up when Lucifer started a rebellion in heaven. God spared him.

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No, he's worse. He's a seventh day adventist.

A bitter little reprobate is hardly a gentleman. I wonder what you sold your birthright for?

You can't be very proud of yourself.

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Now we're getting somewhere.  As Astreja said, even if something superhuman shows up, and say, claims to be YHWH, how will we know that it is what it claims to be?  "Q" from Star Trek could show up.  (I hope not, though, he was rather nasty.) And yet people claim to KNOW and have telepathic communication with God solely based on group psychosis and descriptions of it contained in an ancient, deeply flawed compilation of fables.  And they are quite certain that their particular compilation of myths is TRUTH, and all competing beliefs and deities (and often, even competing interpretations of the same myths!) are pitiable delusions.  

I will hold that ALL stories about deities are myth and fantasy until presented with concrete evidence, and then that evidence will require some testing.

You deserve concrete evidence, because you want it, you will get it, and you ought to test it, as often as needed.

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Your gawd, if it were to exist, in it's omniscience and onmipotence would know exactly what it would take to convince each and every one of us of it's existence, without violating our "free will." The fact that it has never bothered speaks volumes more that you can ever type here about it's existence.

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It's mostly extra-biblical bullshit dreamed up (or cribbed from "Paradise Lost") by Ellen White. Banned isn't a christer, he's a Whitist.

God will only give what he gets from you, no one will force the door to your mind.

It's up to you what you want to do.