Fear of hell, advice please

[The Grand Nudger]

guys, I have read some of the Japanese accounts, they are very similar to Christian ones, but usually consist of no deities. I also read a search for Muslim NDEs by Kreps, where he collects a few, but even he says he would have expected many meetings with Muhammad in these NDEs as people report dreams with him or visions of him, so again, I don't get why they cannot hallucinate him. How can you guys be so confident these NDEs are not real?

So, perhaps the japanese accounts are the accurate ones..and there are no gods?  

As to the other q, take a look at this response to rik, here;

NDE's are real experiences.... 

-notice that Cod, for example..takes the existence of these experiences for granted.  The trouble is this, simply having an experience is not a guarantee of the accuracy of it's contents.  There's a certain futility in posing the question "how can you guys be so confident these NDEs are not real" to a bunch of people who take the reality of their existence for granted.

You don't have to argue NDE's or NDE accounts into existence.  You are dealing with people who do not think that they accurately report on their respective subjects.  Cod goes on to consider them meaningless, in that a much more mundane and better attested to cause(s) for the existence of those experiences exists.  

The only difference between a world in which nde's exist and a world in which nde's are accurate...is that in one of those worlds people go flitting around the known and unknown universe unattached to their bodies, and in the other...people "see" shit.

[GrandizerII]

I also read a search for Muslim NDEs by Kreps, where he collects a few, but even he says he would have expected many meetings with Muhammad in these NDEs as people report dreams with him or visions of him, so again, I don't get why they cannot hallucinate him.

Well, think as much as you can of all the possible explanations for these differences, without invoking the supernatural or the divine. I've already thought up at least three off the top of my head in less than a minute.

---

Here, let me list these three (among many) possible explanations, and you weigh them against your current preferred explanation:

1. NDEs are a rather rare phenomenon among Muslim communities. And due to that rarity, you are less likely to stumble upon reports of Muslims visioning Muhammad in their NDEs.

2. Muslims do experience NDEs as much as Christian communities (and in which they often vision Muhammad), but Muslims rarely report these NDEs due to fear of punishment/ostracization, since it may be considered sacrilegious to do so, given that Muhammad is not a deity of death in the Islamic faith.

3. Kreps just couldn't go as far as he wanted, considering that most of the reports (if not all of them) came from online sources, so he had less stuff to work with than he had desired.

Also, this is what Kreps notes in his report:

With all of these observations in mind, I began searching for Muslim NDEs, expecting to see many accounts of Muslims meeting with the Prophet Muhammad in the afterlife. This expectation was even stronger given that there are numerous accounts of Muslim saints known as awliya (friends of Allah) meeting Muhammad either in dreams or in daytime visions. Two of the more notable saints involved in these kind of meetings were Abu Hassan ash-Shadhili, originator of the great Sufi tariqat, the Shadhili Order, and Ibn al-Arabi, the great Andalusian Sufi also known as the Sheikh al-Akbar, or the greatest Sheikh. I will describe his account, which is very similar to an actual NDE, later in order to highlight the specificity of the Islamic perspective on Ultimate Reality.

So those who have reported seeing Muhammad in their dreams or daytime visions aren't exactly ordinary laypeople, are they? Perhaps that's an important factor to consider as well.

[Angrboda]

The following article has a lot of good info about NDEs that you probably won't find elsewhere. It's an eye opening read. I highly recommend it.

Hallucinatory Near-Death Experiences

[Little Rik]

Simple.

If atheists would admit that NDEs are real the atheist chariot would collapse and disintegrate in no time.  

Sooner or later it will collapse anyway but the longer it keep on the road the longer the fantasy keep alive.  

NDE's are real experiences.... But still meaningless experiences. People can imagine all sorts of strange stuff under the influence of medication, when you have been conditioned to see certain things it's not surprising that some people see certain things, couple that with a large dose of wishful thinking and Bob's your uncle Fanny's your aunt.

What medications Cod?
Haven't you gone trough the thousand of NDEs experiences and see that NDEs come without medications?

http://www.nderf.org/Archives/exceptional.html

---

Simple.

If atheists would admit that NDEs are real the atheist chariot would collapse and disintegrate in no time.  

Sooner or later it will collapse anyway but the longer it keep on the road the longer the fantasy keep alive.  

Actually, LR, atheists know more about NDE then you or religious persons that take it for granted, like this article in Scientific American
https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...ear-death/

Not all is understood, of course, but enough is to make it clear that the dying or oxygen-deprived brain is probably behind these events. For example, the tunnel of light that many dying or distressed people have reported seeing is likely nothing more than the tunnel vision that occurs when the eyes don't get enough blood and oxygen. Researchers have also found that some drugs can trigger hallucinations and out-of-body experiences.

When it comes to eternal life it is not closed for atheists, because in few years or decades we may all may become immortal with cloned organs ready to be replaced and micro robots repairing us.

On the other hand existence after death that religious leaders have been selling us for as long as there has been religion is a terribly destructive hope if it leads people to demand less of themselves in this life because they expect more after they die and don't actually involve more in science.

Is that a research?  

Are you kidding me?  
That is none but an other guessing.
The guy doesn't even know that only some NDEs go through the tunnel.  
Get real son and next time present something a bit more credible.  

[Cod]

What medications Cod?
Haven't you gone trough the thousand of NDEs experiences and see that NDEs come without medications?

Why would I? It's proof of nothing. I also haven't gone through accounts of alien abductions or Elvis and Bigfoot sightings.

[Little Rik]

What medications Cod?
Haven't you gone trough the thousand of NDEs experiences and see that NDEs come without medications?

Why would I? It's proof of nothing. I also haven't gone through accounts of alien abductions or Elvis and Bigfoot sightings.

Why would you?

Because you alleged that NDEs come when you take medications so by reading NDEs experiences you would find out that that is not the case.
As simple as this Cod.  

Fail once again mate.  

[Fake Messiah]

Actually, LR, atheists know more about NDE then you or religious persons that take it for granted, like this article in Scientific American
https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...ear-death/

Not all is understood, of course, but enough is to make it clear that the dying or oxygen-deprived brain is probably behind these events. For example, the tunnel of light that many dying or distressed people have reported seeing is likely nothing more than the tunnel vision that occurs when the eyes don't get enough blood and oxygen. Researchers have also found that some drugs can trigger hallucinations and out-of-body experiences.

When it comes to eternal life it is not closed for atheists, because in few years or decades we may all may become immortal with cloned organs ready to be replaced and micro robots repairing us.

On the other hand existence after death that religious leaders have been selling us for as long as there has been religion is a terribly destructive hope if it leads people to demand less of themselves in this life because they expect more after they die and don't actually involve more in science.

Is that a research?  

Are you kidding me?  
That is none but an other guessing.
The guy doesn't even know that only some NDEs go through the tunnel.  
Get real son and next time present something a bit more credible.  

LR that study is for reasonable people, which means not yourself. You, on the other hand, have some other things to do and we all know what that is  

[Cod]

Why would I? It's proof of nothing. I also haven't gone through accounts of alien abductions or Elvis and Bigfoot sightings.

Why would you?

Because you alleged that NDEs come when you take medications so by reading NDEs experiences you would find out that that is not the case.
As simple as this Cod.  

Fail once again mate.  

Rik, get your head out of your arse. Because I couldn't be arsed going through all the possible reasons for NDE's doesn't mean I've failed, it just means I couldn't be arsed. Okay there are thousands of accounts of NDE's, but when you consider that billions of people are conditioned to expect a certain outcome that's not at all surprising, even atheists are indirectly conditioned throughout their lives. Medication is one factor, lack of oxygen to the brain is another, but conditioning in my opinion is the main reason, say something over and over to someone enough and it sticks.

[orthodox-man]

Why would you?

Because you alleged that NDEs come when you take medications so by reading NDEs experiences you would find out that that is not the case.
As simple as this Cod.  

Fail once again mate.  

Rik, get your head out of your arse. Because I couldn't be arsed going through all the possible reasons for NDE's doesn't mean I've failed, it just means I couldn't be arsed. Okay there are thousands of accounts of NDE's, but when you consider that billions of people are conditioned to expect a certain outcome that's not at all surprising, even atheists are indirectly conditioned throughout their lives. Medication is one factor, lack of oxygen to the brain is another, but conditioning in my opinion is the main reason, say something over and over to someone enough and it sticks.  

Cod, I feel even if we cannot explain NDEs at the moment doesn't mean they are evidence of life after death. The biggest proof of it being true is Jeuss

[Cod]

Rik, get your head out of your arse. Because I couldn't be arsed going through all the possible reasons for NDE's doesn't mean I've failed, it just means I couldn't be arsed. Okay there are thousands of accounts of NDE's, but when you consider that billions of people are conditioned to expect a certain outcome that's not at all surprising, even atheists are indirectly conditioned throughout their lives. Medication is one factor, lack of oxygen to the brain is another, but conditioning in my opinion is the main reason, say something over and over to someone enough and it sticks.  

Cod, I feel even if we cannot explain NDEs at the moment doesn't mean they are evidence of life after death. The biggest proof of it being true is Jeuss

Who? I'll have a pint of whatever you're drinking