Disproving the christian (and muslim) god

[Huggy Bear]

No offense, but that's got to be the dumbest argument I've seen.

I used your very same argument.

So unless it's your position that the people said "hey guy's how about we ditch our religion and make up a new one when we get to where we are going", rather than the religion evolving since it's based on ORAL tradition.

Christianity isn't based on an Oral tradition, there this book called the Bible...

[Aegon]

Are you... kidding me? Lmao. How selective do you have to be to not realize that YAHWEH AND A LARGE PORTION OF THE IT IS DERRIVATIVE OF THE SAME MYTHOLOGY. The religions literally developed in the same region. Gilgamesh and Noah have the same story arc! The flood story is identical! My god, man!

So basically what you're saying is that a Monotheistic religion that strictly prohibits the worship of Idols is derived from a Polytheistic pantheon of over 40 different gods, and not the other way around? And that Gilgamesh can in no way be derived from story of Noah?

Like I said, present your evidence.

Yes? Lol. It's an historical fact that Judaism and the stories that made it are younger than all of those mythologies, by over one thousand years. Gilgamesh was written between 2000 and 2100 BC, while the earliest estimate of when the Torah was written is around 1300 BC. Akkadian mythology ripped off the ones before it too. The Ras Shamra tablets are dated 6000 BC, and Ugaritic and Hebrew share very similar language and literary forms. That's how these stories work. And the Abrahamic religions are no different.

To be honest it feels bizarre to me to have to argue this. Any historian (or even undergraduate history student) studying near eastern history or ancient studies has seen how the earlier mythologies were a major source of the material in Jewish mythology. If you don't believe me, we live in the age of information, use Google Scholar or something. I wouldn't tell you to do this if there wouldn't be results. But I am operating off of what I remember for the several month period I learned about these things. And I ain't got time to try to convince you of anything, it doesn't really impact me. I just HAD to point out the irony of you accepting their influence on Nordic religion but not your own.

---

I used your very same argument.

So unless it's your position that the people said "hey guy's how about we ditch our religion and make up a new one when we get to where we are going", rather than the religion evolving since it's based on ORAL tradition.

Christianity isn't based on an Oral tradition, there this book called the Bible...

What in the he'll do you think the Bible is based on?

[GrandizerII]

I used your very same argument.

So unless it's your position that the people said "hey guy's how about we ditch our religion and make up a new one when we get to where we are going", rather than the religion evolving since it's based on ORAL tradition.

Christianity isn't based on an Oral tradition, there this book called the Bible...

No, Huggy, the Gospel accounts that you read in the New Testament? They're based on oral tradition.

[I_am_not_mafia]

I used your very same argument.

So unless it's your position that the people said "hey guy's how about we ditch our religion and make up a new one when we get to where we are going", rather than the religion evolving since it's based on ORAL tradition.

Christianity isn't based on an Oral tradition, there this book called the Bible...

Odin was written about with runic inscriptions.

[Huggy Bear]

It's a fact that people migrated out from Mesopotamia, it's also a fact that the German language also evolved from the language in ancient Mesopotamia. So unless it's your posistion that the people said "hey guy's how about we ditch our religion and make up a new one when we get to where we are going", rather than the religion evolving since it's based on ORAL tradition.

Then post your sources, how many times must I state this.

Here's your "logic":

P1. People migrated out from Mesopotamia.
P2. The German language evolved from the language in ancient Mesopotamia.
C.  Germanic religion, being based on oral tradition, evolved from some Mesopotamian religion.

Even if we were to accept the truth of the premises (and I question the accuracy of the "facts" you stated), do you not see how the conclusion only weakly follows from the premises (and I'm being generous here)? It could logically be that the Germanic people nevertheless came up with a fairly new religion over time in the new land. I don't see any conclusive evidence for your position, so until you present it, consider me very skeptical.

If only you had the same level of skepticism in regards to abiogenesis...

[I_am_not_mafia]

If only you had the same level of skepticism in regards to abiogenesis...

As if by magic, when the theist's argument fails, they deflect by saying something stupid about something entirely unrelated.

[GrandizerII]

Here's your "logic":

P1. People migrated out from Mesopotamia.
P2. The German language evolved from the language in ancient Mesopotamia.
C.  Germanic religion, being based on oral tradition, evolved from some Mesopotamian religion.

Even if we were to accept the truth of the premises (and I question the accuracy of the "facts" you stated), do you not see how the conclusion only weakly follows from the premises (and I'm being generous here)? It could logically be that the Germanic people nevertheless came up with a fairly new religion over time in the new land. I don't see any conclusive evidence for your position, so until you present it, consider me very skeptical.

If only you had the same level of skepticism in regards to abiogenesis...

Nice tactic. You can't present the evidence I've requested, so you jump to a totally unrelated topic, just to distract from your failure.

[Huggy Bear]

So basically what you're saying is that a Monotheistic religion that strictly prohibits the worship of Idols is derived from a Polytheistic pantheon of over 40 different gods, and not the other way around? And that Gilgamesh can in no way be derived from story of Noah?

Like I said, present your evidence.

Yes? Lol. It's an historical fact that Judaism and the stories that made it are younger than all of those mythologies, by over one thousand years. Gilgamesh was written between 2000 and 2100 BC, while the earliest estimate of when the Torah was written is around 1300 BC. Akkadian mythology ripped off the ones before it too. The Ras Shamra tablets are dated 6000 BC, and Ugaritic and Hebrew share very similar language and literary forms. That's how these stories work. And the Abrahamic religions are no different.

To be honest it feels bizarre to me to have to argue this. Any historian (or even undergraduate history student) studying near eastern history or ancient studies has seen how the earlier mythologies were a major source of the material in Jewish mythology. If you don't believe me, we live in the age of information, use Google Scholar or something. I wouldn't tell you to do this if there wouldn't be results. But I am operating off of what I remember for the several month period I learned about these things. And I ain't got time to try to convince you of anything, it doesn't really impact me. I just HAD to point out the irony of you accepting their influence on Nordic religion but not your own.

Must I remind you that the book of Job predates the Torah? Job was not a Jew.

[Fake Messiah]

*emphasis mine*
Here we go...
Why do you bible rookies always feel you can challenge me?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint

Seventy-two Jewish scholars were asked by the Greek King of Egypt Ptolemy II Philadelphus to translate the Torah from Biblical Hebrew into Greek, for inclusion in the Library of Alexandria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almah

The Septuagint version of the Old Testament renders both Hebrew words almah and betulah as the same Greek word parthenos.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Parthenos

From Ancient Greek παρθένος (parthénos, “maiden”).

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/maiden

maiden
1. a girl or young unmarried woman; maid.

A young unmarried Jewish girl WAS a virgin... Must I explain the Levitical laws to you?

Isaac Asimov was once in the Bible Museum and this is what he wrote about Jews and word "almah":

Further more God says he would give a sign, a woman having a baby in and of itself is not a sign.

It is a "sign" in a context Jews interpret it

[GrandizerII]

Yes? Lol. It's an historical fact that Judaism and the stories that made it are younger than all of those mythologies, by over one thousand years. Gilgamesh was written between 2000 and 2100 BC, while the earliest estimate of when the Torah was written is around 1300 BC. Akkadian mythology ripped off the ones before it too. The Ras Shamra tablets are dated 6000 BC, and Ugaritic and Hebrew share very similar language and literary forms. That's how these stories work. And the Abrahamic religions are no different.

To be honest it feels bizarre to me to have to argue this. Any historian (or even undergraduate history student) studying near eastern history or ancient studies has seen how the earlier mythologies were a major source of the material in Jewish mythology. If you don't believe me, we live in the age of information, use Google Scholar or something. I wouldn't tell you to do this if there wouldn't be results. But I am operating off of what I remember for the several month period I learned about these things. And I ain't got time to try to convince you of anything, it doesn't really impact me. I just HAD to point out the irony of you accepting their influence on Nordic religion but not your own.

Must I remind you that the book of Job predates the Torah? Job was not a Jew.

Doesn't mean it wasn't written by Jews.