Best Theistic Arguments

[Little Rik]

Obviously the guy know that he did something quite wrong by trying to experience something that should only be given in a natural way by God.

As you said in the evolution thread, the content of an NDE reflects the person's prior beliefs.  So all that this shows is that he had a prior belief that by using ketamine he was cheating, it doesn't demonstrate that he actually was cheating.  Regardless, it shows that your repeatedly claim that chemicals in the brain cannot produce NDE experiences is wrong.

When I was about 18 I also did experienced something big with the use of LSD.
I regret I ever did that but that is past.
LSD, ketamine or many other substances are able to open to a certain degree the pineal gland where God is.
The guy himself said that is cheating and cheating prevent you from see God.
All you can see are glimpses of the outside.
In this way the consciousness is unable to leave the body as in a real NDE experience where God welcome you.

You're just mouthing more dogma that you believe but have no evidence for.  Pineal gland?  Leaving the body?  We've already shown these beliefs of yours are bullshit.

Million of people dream all sort of things but those things never come through.
In very few instances dreams come through but that is the law of statistics.  

To conclude........NO.
You have no........ justification for believing that vibrations are not alive based on this pretend dream that YOU had?

And yet we could say the same things about NDEs.  That you choose to support NDEs because you believe it shows reincarnation and karma, and not dreams if they contradicts what you believe, shows that all you are doing is cherry picking what evidence to accept based on what you already believe.  That's not a valid form of justification and undermines your claim that what you believe is not dogma.  You pick your evidence based on what you believe instead of picking what to believe based on the evidence.

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FAIL AGAIN YOG.

1) Evidence is there because people who experience these NDEs exist, and because real death and back from death were witnessed by real doctors and hospitals are also real where records are kept.

Yeah, well I'm not going to get excited until you actually produce this evidence.  If it's like your prior claims, you talk big until you're asked to actually produce the goods, and then you run away.

2) Vibrations are alive because NDEs are real and because these people experienced that vibrations connect all life and all life is made of vibrations.

You've yet to show that NDEs are 'real', but it does bring up an important question.  How we determine that something is real?

If life come from non life please produce this evidence yog.
As I already said you could win a Nobel prize as well.

You claim that I'm the one without a working brain, yet it is repeatedly you that doesn't get even the simplest of points.

Whether I can produce an example of life coming from non-life is irrelevant because that fact isn't evidence for your belief that life only comes from life.

If you don't understand that, I suggest you reread my prior response until it sinks in.

Not in some case yog.
In fact IN ALL CASES that we know.

Yes, and as far as we know, that is only some cases.  You don't know that the cases we know about encompasses all cases, which is why it's an argument from ignorance, and thus doesn't support your point.

Atheists see a rock then automatically think......there is no life in it.

After this they have even the audacity to say that they believe in science but science contradict them from top to bottom.
Energy is there and where there is energy there is consciousness.
Consciousness and energy are expressed in vibration and vibrations got to be alive to express life within.

Yet more claims that science supports you.  What I don't see is any actual science.  You fail again.

The rest of this is just you mouthing Ananda Marga dogma.

That is a load of BS.
To say........I AM AN ATHEIST is a claim in itself.
The very dictionary that you are always so eager to point to it clearly say that atheism is lack of God so to say that there is no God is a clear statement that require evidence.
Evidence that exist only in your dreaming mind and not anywhere else.

The fact that you are ignorant and stupid is not something I can help you with.    I have made my position plain.  That you do not understand it is not my problem.

Look here, look there but I still can not see any lies.  

Lying about lying.  Gee, what a shock.  Regardless, unlike you, when asked to produce evidence of my claims then I produce it.  Unlike you who runs away when challenged to produce the evidence.

 
Too bad yog.
If you could not see any evidence that vibrations are alive that is your problem.
The problem also to be left in the stone age of knowledge plus the problem to admit the evidence because this would means a total failure in your atheistic philosophy.

This doesn't in any way answer the points raised.  As usual, when given questions you can't answer, you simply change the subject.

How do you differentiate between your view and the Christian view that God is causing vibrations to vibrate.  The reason I don't see any evidence is because you haven't presented any.

Not contradictory at all yog.
Evolution clearly show that everything and everyone point to more and more evolution so one form of consciousness in the lower form of life turn into a more form of consciousness.
None is excluded.
Even matter want to escape her situation as seen in uranium and other miner that release energy.

It's self-refuting by definition.

The rest of this is just more babbling about things that you have no reasons nor evidence for.  I really don't care about your dogma concerning evolution if that's all it is.

Uranium's behavior is not evidence that she wants anything.  As I just stated, that's what you're here to show.  Simply repeating the claim is pointless.

Obviously you are thick.
As you can see in that video emotions and feeling through vibrations clearly build a figure that show their state of being.
This is clear evidence that vibrations are alive.
Again too bad if you can't get it.
That is your problem.
A problem that if persist will surely will take you to total lost of mental balance.

If you're talking about the behavior of the water droplet in the video, that is not an example of emotions and feeling building a figure.  The narrator clearly says that they are applying sound vibrations to the water.  It's no fucking mystery that physical vibrations from one thing (the sound source) can cause vibratory behavior in something else physical.  That has nothing to do with emotions and feeling.

But even if it were emotions and feeling causing the figure in the video, that wouldn't demonstrate that vibrations in inanimate matter are alive.  We already know that we who have emotions and feelings are alive.  That says nothing about whether inanimate matter vibrations are alive.  If our emotions and feelings are vibrations, and they can provoke vibrations in other things, well, cool!  That doesn't provide any evidence for your claim that vibrations in inanimate matter are alive.

You keep trying to say that I am the one who is a fool and an idiot without a working brain, and yet it is you that keeps presenting things that don't demonstrate what you think they demonstrate.  The evidence from your own behavior in this forum is that you're a fucking moron, and all your claims about my worth are just the empty trash talk of a person not possessed of any intelligence or erudition.


 

So, you don't have any evidence that you have a brain?  No matter.  I'm more interested in seeing you support your claim that if one is dead, the other is also dead.  I see no reason for supposing that this is true, and suspect it's just something you pulled out of your ass because you're running out of arguments.

Life is everything that exist.
Non life is nothing because there is no non life anywhere.

So, when you say that vibrations are alive, what you are really saying is that vibrations are everything?  I don't have a problem with that.  However, given that definition, the statement that vibrations are alive isn't support for your view of evolution.  So you've essentially gutted your own claim.  So what reason do we have for believing that rocks evolve into plants and so on, again?

Consciousness is what everything is made of whether there is awareness of one existence or not.

The dictionary defines consciousness as, "the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings."  If what you say is true, then rocks are aware, while at the same time they are not aware.  I should've known better than to indulge you.  When left to your own devices, you produce nonsensical shit.

Regardless, if you're still claiming that something which exists in human minds also exists in rocks, you'll need a better definition than this.  I suggest we stick with dictionary definitions, so that everybody can follow along.  According to the dictionary, life has properties that rocks do not.  Consciousness is a property that rocks do not have.  If you mean something else by these words, such as LRConsciousness, then you'll have to show that whatever that is, it exists in both humans and rocks.  Until you do, your beliefs about the evolution of consciousness are just worthless dogma.

Ok. now you can go back to your usual dreaming while I go to sleep (dreamless)

Who are you kidding, you've been asleep your whole life.

You are thick and dull yog but no worries.
One day probably in the next life you will get it.
Get how the whole system works.

1) You still can not understand how a rock can be full of consciousness as in human life and at the same time it present no life.

Easy.

It is the awareness that make the difference.
The awareness doesn't come easy.
It takes some millions or more years to turn a latent or dormant form of consciousness such as pure matter into plant life, animal life, human life and God life.
This is what evolution is all about.
It is the evolution of the awareness in consciousness that turn matter into something different and more aware.
Consciousness in itself is the same in all form of lives because everything come from the same source but not everything has got the same awareness of who they are.

Consciousness has nothing to do with..........the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings........instead has to do with being aware of who we are so it is an internal thing not an external one.
Matter does not have a brain or any other way to think or to be aware so no expression is possible.
Even then after millions of years in that bondage something pop up within that make her wish to escape that situation of bondage
and that works with the release of energy as we can see in some minerals such as uranium and other.

2) There is no way that ketamine and other substances are able to allow the consciousness to leave or disconnect from the body.
An NDE is instead able to do that because that is not cheating.
The fact that people using the chemical way are able to see something big does in no way means that they experience an OBE.
These people also they never die as in a NDE.  

3) How we determine that something is real?

It is all about developing an high degree of awareness.
Physical science change continuously.
If you stick to what this science say today you will look like a fool tomorrow.
Everything move and change so what science say that is real today will be cast in the rubbish bin of history tomorrow.

The only way to determine what is real is to look within because within there is the real truth but that is something that you will discover later on considering your stubbornness.

4) Vibrations in inanimate matter are alive as are alive in all other form of life.
The difference however lie in the wave length in which the vibration travel or how the energy is propagated.
The longer it takes to travel  /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ the less awareness present and the less it takes to travel the more come closer to God wave which is flat___________________________.  

[JackRussell]

I've met parrots with a greater repertoire of stock phrases than LR.

[Edwardo Piet]

I've met parrots with a greater repertoire of stock phrases than LR.

Indeed.

[Angrboda]

You are thick and dull yog but no worries.
One day probably in the next life you will get it.
Get how the whole system works.

Uh huh.  

1) You still can not understand how a rock can be full of consciousness as in human life and at the same time it present no life.

Easy.

It is the awareness that make the difference.
The awareness doesn't come easy.
It takes some millions or more years to turn a latent or dormant form of consciousness such as pure matter into plant life, animal life, human life and God life.
This is what evolution is all about.
It is the evolution of the awareness in consciousness that turn matter into something different and more aware.
Consciousness in itself is the same in all form of lives because everything come from the same source but not everything has got the same awareness of who they are.

Consciousness has nothing to do with..........the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings........instead has to do with being aware of who we are so it is an internal thing not an external one.
Matter does not have a brain or any other way to think or to be aware so no expression is possible.
Even then after millions of years in that bondage something pop up within that make her wish to escape that situation of bondage
and that works with the release of energy as we can see in some minerals such as uranium and other.

There is no evidence that uranium wants anything, and we do not need to invoke unevidenced wants to predict its behavior (see between hide tags below).  If rocks are not in any sense aware, then in what way are they like things that we know are conscious? What is your evidence for this?

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All elements with 84 or more protons are unstable; they eventually undergo decay. Other isotopes with fewer protons in their nucleus are also radioactive. The radioactivity corresponds to the neutron/proton ratio in the atom:

• If the neutron/proton ratio is too high (there are too many neutrons or too few protons), the isotope is said to be neutron rich and is, therefore, unstable.
  
• If the neutron/proton ratio is too low (there are too few neutrons or too many protons), the isotope is unstable.
  

The neutron/proton ratio for a certain element must fall within a certain range for the element to be stable. That’s why some isotopes of an element are stable and others are radioactive.

Dummies || The Process Of Natural Radioactive Decay

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2) There is no way that ketamine and other substances are able to allow the consciousness to leave or disconnect from the body.
An NDE is instead able to do that because that is not cheating.
The fact that people using the chemical way are able to see something big does in no way means that they experience an OBE.
These people also they never die as in a NDE.  

You have no evidence that consciousness is able to leave or disconnect from the body.  When I pointed this out in the evolution thread, you became obstinate and uncooperative and refused to answer further.  Nor do people die in the case of NDEs, as is obvious from the fact that we have the testimony of live NDE experiencers.  The rest of this is just more nonsensical dogma that you believe but have no evidence for.

3) How we determine that something is real?

It is all about developing an high degree of awareness.
Physical science change continuously.
If you stick to what this science say today you will look like a fool tomorrow.
Everything move and change so what science say that is real today will be cast in the rubbish bin of history tomorrow.

The only way to determine what is real is to look within because within there is the real truth but that is something that you will discover later on considering your stubbornness.

Out of one side of your mouth you claim that knowledge from inside is the determinant of the real, and out of the other side of your mouth you claim that evidence from dreams is not justification for believing something.  Apparently, looking within only works if you believe the right dogma.  You don't know what the fuck you believe, nor do you know how to determine what is real.  This is just more Ananda Marga dogma that has yielded bullshit like Sakar's Microvita.  

4) Vibrations in inanimate matter are alive as are alive in all other form of life.
The difference however lie in the wave length in which the vibration travel or how the energy is propagated.
The longer it takes to travel  /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ the less awareness present and the less it takes to travel the more come closer to God wave which is flat___________________________.  

Oh look!  No evidence from NDEs, and no scientific evidence.  Little Rik runs away again.

[snowtracks]

Surprisingly, so many people don’t acknowledge that  ‘creation’ itself is evidence of God. What is happening here is that their fallen nature is at enmity with God and attempts to wrap itself with a veneer of intellectualism, or some other defense as the Spanish Inquisition, Preist doing unsavory acts, 'religious' stepfather was abusive  But in their quiet moments, they have to keep reminding themselves that there isn’t any God. Like the poet said ‘truth is like dust, just can’t get rid of that stuff; it just keeps hanging around’. That why atheists: crave reassurance that their uneasy feeling is not really justified, yet that feeling keeps haunting their conscience. That's because every person is blessed with a spirit (eternal and gives knowledge of God), the 3'rd component, the other 2 are mind and body - animals only have these 2 components.

"Creation" is not evidence of god, though.  To a subjective observer, perhaps, the type who finds comfort in the readily available answer.

The Universe had a beginning, therefore God. The cause is always greater than the effect. GR proves that the universe previously didn’t exist. Let’s don’t hear any nonsense appeal about metaphysical speculations of a multiverse to avoid the ineluctable conclusion that a Causal agent transcendental to space and time, brought the universe into exist for his own purposes*. Earth is the center of the universe, all points in the universe can claim the physical center, only Earth is where the information is, which makes it the center.

*He has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.

[pocaracas]

"Creation" is not evidence of god, though.  To a subjective observer, perhaps, the type who finds comfort in the readily available answer.

The Universe had a beginning, therefore God.

When you say "the Universe", what do you mean by it?
Energy and matter?
Space-time?

The cause is always greater than the effect.

Greater in what way?
Physics tells us that the effect always has greater or equal entropy.

GR proves that the universe previously didn’t exist.

GR? What's GR?
General Relativity? I don't remember it proving any such thing...
But, if you mean the matter and energy within the known Universe, that is probably right.

Let’s don’t hear any nonsense appeal about metaphysical speculations of a multiverse to avoid the ineluctable conclusion that a Causal agent transcendental to space and time, brought the universe into exist for his own purposes*.

Wow! "A Causal agent transcendental do space and time"... Physics tells us that space-time itself can be a causal agent. Space-time itself can be the causal agent that brought the matter and energy within the Universe into existence. No purpose involved. No purpose required.
And, sure, that entails the possibility of other Universes being created in the same way, in many (or infinite) points of space-time.

Earth is the center of the universe, all points in the universe can claim the physical center, only Earth is where the information is, which makes it the center.

Yes, we can put the center at any point and physics works the same.
I don't understand what you mean by "where the information is"... which information? Why is information not elsewhere, too?
I wouldn't be surprised if life had originated elsewhere in the Universe... and, with it, other intelligent life forms, capable of dealing with information.

*He has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.

Why do you guys always trot out this "saved" business?
Saved from what?

[KittyAnn]

Why do you guys always trot out this "saved" business?
Saved from what?

saved us from death and of eternal damnation.... He gave us eternal life ..(after the death of the body)..

[pocaracas]

Why do you guys always trot out this "saved" business?
Saved from what?

saved us from death and of eternal damnation.... He gave us eternal life ..(after the death of the body)..

But we know that people die. All people die.

Eternal damnation is part of the myth... along with eternal life. How can anyone verify that those things happen?

[robvalue]

Saved us from damnation by whom? Himself, I imagine.

Death was his own invention. If he wanted us to live forever he could have just done that to begin with! Heaven seems like Earth 2.0 where God corrects all his mistakes.

[KittyAnn]

saved us from death and of eternal damnation.... He gave us eternal life ..(after the death of the body)..

But we know that people die. All people die.

Eternal damnation is part of the myth... along with eternal life. How can anyone verify that those things happen?

of course, that we all die, the body of each of us dies ... it is a part of the divine plan, we live and we die... but we still have a soul that doesn't die with the body ... and thanks to the Son of God who came into the world and he gave lives for us, that is, washed away our sins. ... but also at the same time He resurrected, that is, he conquered death and gave us this promise of eternal life ... he freed our souls from eternal damnation... of course verify this is it true, is not so easy for most of us.. it depends of our faith, how we read the signs over the centuries... but this is faith, not science...faith from science differs in that it don't need evidence at every turn..maybe a small revelation, miracle...that's all in my opinion